Let's see "Venial or Mortal" sins. Isn't this kind of classification a dead give away to the man made source that invented such rules and such a "God"?

A god that is remarkably succeptable to human emotions and responses such as jealousy(no gods before him),revenge,brutality (many examples here),pride (he saw it was good),Anger (too numerous to count)

Emotions are HUMAN responses to stimuli we have no control over. Odd that an Omnipotent being would fall victim to these.

It's all a lot of nonsense. Just treat others as you would want to be treated and there are NO SINS. After you die that is it. Your soul doesn't go anywhere.

People who believe in a supernatural being continue to demonstrate how irrelevant they are. As Sam Harris has pointed out, the Catholic Church hierachy is nothing but "an elite group of child molesters"! And there are no words to describe the atrocities performed by Muslims in the name of Allah!

I always find it interesting that while polls show that only 3 -4 percent of Americans claim to be agnostic, here at the fray it is about 40% or so (based on responses).

I feel a lot more people are agnostic then these polls indicate because when someone answer a poll about religion they often answer for their PARENTS and not really what THEY feel.

In other words I know of a lot of people with Catholic parents. I ask they 'how would you 'Check the Box'' on a poll. They indicate 'well Catholic,,,'. BUT since I have had many religious discussion with them they are really closet agnostics (or the 'god is nature, nature is god' types which is really just saying they don't know WHAT this god 'thing' is).

Good to see reason is finally get accros to the younger members of society. This is why religious people are sooooo pissed offf and claim Christians are under attack.

High 5 to Sam Harris and long live reason. Down with the child molesting, gay bashing, and sick RCC!

When you were a child did your parents ever get angry with some of your behaviors? Did they repremand you? Did they forgive you? Why did they do all that; not because they didn't love you and didn't want you to be all that you could be; they did it because they wanted you to know the action you committed was wrong and it made you less than you could be. It is the same with God. God is our Father. He created us and the world we live in... he also gave each of us free will, which is why we find the world in the state it is in...He wants us to do His will so we can some day share in the unbelieveable good that awaits us in Heaven. So, if because of our free will we choose to do something He has asked us not to do then His anger is just -- as the anger of our human parents is just if one has disobeyed. If the infraction was very serious than the punishment was probably harsher than for a lesser infraction... some infractions are worse than others as some sins are worse than others... You will be in my prayers

Your God sounds pretty nice francine. Too bad you can't share Him with some of the others.

Re: Manmade God
by Nightstart
"It's all a lot of nonsense. Just treat others as you would want to be treated and there are NO SINS. After you die that is it. Your soul doesn't go anywhere." Thank You. Something so simple and likely it escapes them. If the Believers in thier various(but only ONE true God) spent half the time they did degrading ,condemning,and making rules that insure thier positions in society we truely would have a world at peace.

As I was posting I was watching the new HBO "John Adams" mini series and a quote on the program by Adams caught my attention and seemed quite apropriate for the subject.

"No matter our hearts and convictions, what we believe and feel. It will not alter facts and evidence."

Francine. The difference between my parents and your heavenly father is that my parents exist and had they not I am confident I would have learned from other humans what behavior is wrong and what is right.One doesn't need to believe that they will be rewarded or punished to be a good person. All humans and even monkeys know or learn that emotional respect , affection, ,companionship and cooperation amongst their own insures their survival and happiness.

I don't need an imaginary friend or father to remind me of this universal fact.

Doing the morally right thing makes everyone happy. Both the recipient and the provider.

Brollens and NightSwimmer

God does not exist in only one place. He is everywhere and in everyone of us. You tell me to respect, have compassion for others and cooperation amongst others. Why should I when I can just go about doing whatever i like. It dont matter if i have to respect you, who are you to tell me to respect you infact i consider you a lowly person. And why should i feel for others where would taht get me? NO WHERE I can just go on my way steal lie and cheat my way through life becuase like you say the end result is just death and that is it. There is no punishment for my actions. Forget the government system as well why go with society when i can just drive the fear in people and start my own governtment

Before you answer these questions, WITH A OPEN MIND think long and hard my friend about what you are goin to say. This is an easy concept but only some come across it.

Brollens and NightSwimmer

God does not exist in only one place. He is everywhere and in everyone of us. You tell me to respect, have compassion for others and cooperation amongst others. Why should I when I can just go about doing whatever i like. It dont matter if i have to respect you, who are you to tell me to respect you infact i consider you a lowly person. And why should i feel for others where would taht get me? NO WHERE I can just go on my way steal lie and cheat my way through life becuase like you say the end result is just death and that is it. There is no punishment for my actions. Forget the government system as well why go with society when i can just drive the fear in people and start my own governtment

Before you answer these questions, WITH A OPEN MIND think long and hard my friend about what you are goin to say. This is an easy concept but only some come acro

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Odd that a Christian(I assume), upon removing the concept of God or a reward of eternal life would find it a necessary or preferable option to lie,cheat, and steal to get through life.

I don't need to believe in loving ,all knowing, nurturing, rewarding caretaker to know that doing these anti-social things statistically insures that person will have a unfullfilling and unrewarding life. There is something called a conscience that tells us right from wrong. It is assisted in it's development through enteractions with other humans. That is why many others and myself who do not believe in God or an afterlife still treat our fellow human beings as we would want to be treated ourselves.We know that there is great satisfaction and mental reward from doing nice things for others and not being abusive,dishonest and disrespectful. I don't cheat or lie as a rule , I do nice things for others because it makes me feel good and that is how I want to spend my life if possible.It's that simple. Maybe I enjoy and regard my life, friends and family as even more precious because I don't dellude myself to believe it will last forever . In a way not believeing in god and promises of eternity has helped make me a more appreciative for the people in my life and in turn a better person myself.

Conscience- a knowledge or sense of right and wrong, with an urge to do right; moral judgment that opposes the violation of a previously recognized ethical principle and that leads to feelings of guilt if one violates such a principle.

Yes conscience is in a person. But where did the origin of life come from? What is that satisfaction you feel? What is that mental reward which you receive when you treat people with respect? Something had to put this planet together. Something had to put humans on this earth.

This is what you wrote, “Maybe I enjoy and regard my life, friends and family as even more precious because I don't delude myself to believe it will last forever.

My question to that comment, Why doesn’t your life last forever? Why do we get old?

What is the point of our exists? Just to do good for others and feel good about ourselves and then we die, what is the point of that?

I haven't asked for your respect.

Do as you please.

I didnt say i was not goin to respect you. What i wrote above dressed to you and brollen was a way to simply tell me what stops me from doing wrong? I got a response back from someone saying conscience tells you, but where does that soul come from that power of the soul to tell from right and wrong?

One asnwer he/she said from human interaction but who made us humans?

I am ask you the same question i asked the previous person on this page, Why do we exist? Just to do good for us and others, What is the point of that?

These are some big questions to be answered, if you dont believe in God. I hope there is an asnwer to them

instead of just trying to live the life they have as best as possible? does it make a difference- the asking? it doesn't seem to do people any good unless they come up with an answer. and many people are so desperate to find an answer that they come up with ones that encroach on other's freedoms and take away their decisions.

this is what the role of religion has become in society. a way of limiting choice. that seems to go directly against many people's assertion of God giving us free will.

it doesn't have to be either/or, though. and i think you will find that a great many people find themselves somewhere in the middle of the issue (wherever that happens to be). i don't feel the need to insult people who believe in God or those that don't. i don't feel the need to continuously ask "why" to a question i know won't truly be answered during this existence and am incredibly wary of those who think they have found the one true answer that is supposed to be for everyone.

The god that Francine describes, the one that a lot of people who are christian and yet not rabid, tend to believe in... That idea of God sounds like one that would want us to follow our own paths to truth. Not one that would limit us. People contradict themselves when they describe a God who says "have free will, but if you don't do what i like, i will get angry". It's illogical, but if that's what one needs to believe- go for it, just don't try to make anyone else agree with you. It's not what God would want...

Also, the father metaphor falls apart when you examine it too hard (as do many metaphors). Perhaps because people are examining the wrong things. Why not just take the part about the fact that God as a father loves you (which i think is another way of saying that we live in a harmonious universe that works in a rational way) and not attach the idea of punishment and retribution. oh, wait. is that because (especially in more primitive times) people didn't have highly developed consciences? that perhaps the majority of people didn't have the reasoning skills to be able to deduce that not harming others was beneficial to them?

if you still need the concept of angry God to help you be a better person, more power to you. and shame on you agnostics or atheists who put these people down. Don't take from them what they need! But i say to those of you who need such stimulus in your life, don't get mad or judge those of us that do NOT need the same form of spiritual nourishment as you. It's called people are individuals and it's really stupid to compare what "works" for one of us to what "works" for another.