Is there any real question that if a woman with the same experience as Obama were running for president, she'd be laughed off the stage? Is there any doubt that a white male politician, even the editor of the law review - one, would never have won nomination to the Senate from Illinois (which was Obama's launching pad), and would not have been selected as the key note speaker at the covention in 2004? It is talent combined with opportunity that others would not have had. It is little different than William Jennings Bryan being the charismatic orator given the opportunity to make the last speech at the '96 convention. The legitimate question is does Obama's "talent" exceed that of Clinton's.?

Now you stop that kind of talk!

Don't you know he has Charm and Grace and That Voice?

And 10s of 1,000s of fans screaming and fainting in the aisles?

None of whom can tell you (a) what he's done to deserve such adulation and (b) what he would do if elected (that Sen. Clinton won't already do), let alone (c) how he would do it?

None of that matters! We're beyond race and accountability here.

He's famous for being famous. He's the Paris Hilton of the Democratic Party!

There is a female senator running with Obama's resume. Her name is Hillary Clinton... oh wait you're right she's a SECOND term junior senator not a first. That makes all the difference!

I love it. We (Clinton and Obama supporters) had the option to choose the resume candidates (Dodd, Biden, and Richardson) all passed on the opportunity. As an Obama supporter I concede that were he an ordinary white male politician he would not be "as" successful. But, the same is true for Clinton, and if you don't see that, you probably believe that she played a pivotal role in the Northern Ireland peace process.

And if Hillary had not been the spouse of Bill Clinton, would she have been elected Senator of a state where she had never lived before? The idea that Obama's race has given him an edge is odd, considering that we have had black Democratic primary candidates for president before. Hillary has a leg up (so to speak) because she's Hillary CLINTON, not Hillary Rodham. Obama didn't have the family connections...too bad feminists like Ferraro leave that out. Iguess it would destroy that "Hillary made it on her own" meme.

Sarcasm only works when the foundation, the point being sarcastically denied, is universally accepted. Here, you assume that anyone reading Hillary's "record" would consider it substantial and impressive. But it clearly is not. It's the worst case of resume padding since Brownie at FEMA.

I mean, it's absolutely incredible that people keep repeating this "experience" mantra but never once actually point to an achievement by Clinton that stands up to even a cursory examination. The woman is a rookie, who had to run in New York, a place she had never lived in, just because there was nowhere else that would possibly elect her. It was her first office in her life.

Obama has actually had far more legislative experience, has had far more legislative achievements, and is barely two years shy of Senatorial experience compared to Clinton. Plus, as a community organizer, he has hands on experience in the trenches-- experience that is invaluable to a leader that seeks to "hear our voices."

So, please, spare us the sarcasm. It is most inappropriate on this point.

We did have the choice to go with a resume. I supported Dodd, and considered Biden or Richardson. We selected against that. Getting elected to the US Senate after Harvard Law Review and three elections and seven years in the state senate. Plausible, to me, if you're good. Spinning a compelling story about yourself doesn't hurt. But Clinton? An Arkansas corporate-trademark lawyer and Wal-Mart board member with no elected experience whatsoever becomes the Senator from New York? Hillary Smith could do it? Really?

There are sixteen women in the US Senate. I'd put 14 of them above Clinton in my presidential preference chart (and would admit that Kay Hutchison is more qualified, even if I wouldn't vote for her).

when exactly did these affirmative action loving democrats start worrying about qualifications?

I most certainly agree. Obama has one talent. Oprah. That was the big turnaround for him. Had Lady O kept her big mouth shut, Obama would be in the same boat a Richardson. He is all hot air, and no substance. I'm switching my vote to McCain.

doodahman wrote:

"Obama has actually had far more legislative experience, has had far more legislative achievements, and is barely two years shy of Senatorial experience compared to Clinton."

Yeah, and here are the details of how Obama "achieved" his experience in the Illinois state Senate, from a reporter who covered him there: Todd Spivak's article in the Dallas Observer (he was previously a Chicago reporter) detailing how Obama was fed bills by a State Senate Marjority leader who saw the potential in the 'pork' Obama could return as a US Senator and helped his young protege pad his legislative resume for a US senate run.

Here is link to full article, published on 2/29/08, excerpts below that.

<link>

"Then, in 2002, dissatisfaction with President Bush and Republicans on the national and local levels led to a Democratic sweep of nearly every level of Illinois state government. For the first time in 26 years, Illinois Democrats controlled the governor's office as well as both legislative chambers.

The white, race-baiting, hard-right Republican Illinois Senate Majority Leader James "Pate" Philip was replaced by Emil Jones Jr., a gravel-voiced, dark-skinned black senator known for chain-smoking cigarettes on the Senate floor.

Jones had served in the Illinois Legislature for three decades. He represented a district on the Chicago South Side not far from Obama's. He became Obama's kingmaker.

Several months before Obama announced his U.S. Senate bid, Jones called his old friend Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who now hosts the city's most popular black call-in radio program.

I called Kelley last week, and he recollected the private conversation as follows:

"He said, 'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. senator.'"

"Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

"Barack Obama."

Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," state Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the 1-yard line and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

During his seventh and final year in the Illinois Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law—including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced. It was a stunning achievement that started him on the path of national politics, and he couldn't have done it without Jones.

Before Obama ran for U.S. Senate in 2004, he was virtually unknown even in his own state. Polls showed less than 20 percent of Illinois voters had ever heard of Barack Obama.

Jones further helped raise Obama's profile by having him craft legislation addressing the day-to-day tragedies that dominated local news headlines."

Spivak goes on to discuss how Obama rewarded his state senate mentor:

"So how has Obama repaid Jones?

Last June, to prove his commitment to government transparency, Obama released a comprehensive list of his earmark requests for fiscal year 2008. It comprised more than $300 million in pet projects for Illinois, including tens of millions for Jones' Senate district.

Shortly after Jones became Senate president, I remember asking his view on pork-barrel spending.

I'll never forget what he said:

"Some call it pork; I call it steak." "

end quoted article excerpts.

Does this mean Obama did anything illegal? Probably not. But it does blast his reputation as some kind of 'knight in shining armor' type politician right out of the water, and call his accomplishments into serious question.

Oh, yes I am a Clinton supporter - and I don't think she is any more or less of a political animal than Obama is, I'm just tired of the bullshit hype.