Just a thought since everyone is getting incredibly pessimistic about this whole process. Perhaps a long and intense primary process could help in the long run. As McCain is now uncontested he can certainly campaign all out for november but there is something that he isn't getting, News air time. By drawing this out Clinton and Obama are both getting lots of free publicity and attention due to the intensity of the race and overall getting people more energized about it. Sure it could burn but it could also be a boon. The trick is to keep it going as long as possible so that the Democratic candidates get the kind of attention McCain can't pay for without going so long that people are burned out.

Attention can cut both ways, though. News organizations may miss or reduce focus on gaffes, blunders and misstatements that McCain makes while they are focusing on every microscopic element of the Democrats.

Still, you make a great point about energizing the Dems with this contest. I read that the primary voting numbers in Texas were 3.6 million, more than voted for Kerry in the '04 general election (2.8 million). That part of it is very encouraging.

Well, there's negative and then there's negative. As negative as Clinton may go, she is not going to start calling Obama a muslim terrorist sleeper agent (the Republicans, however, will). As negative as Obama may go, he is not going to start talking about how Clinton murders her former lovers (the Republicans, however, will).

I mean, for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the 3 a.m. ad, it was negative but it wasn't THAT negative. Have we all so quickly forgotten that 4 years ago the Republican VP candidate was telling people that if they voted Democratic that the country was going to be attacked by terrorists?

I don't think that a drawn out process is necessarily a negative, if only because, yeah, our candidates may get a little tarnished, but the longer this goes on, the more defined our eventual candidate, be it Hillary or Barry, will be...on Democratic terms. If this process allows us to define our candidates, then that is far better than having our candidate introduced to the people via the Republican noise machine. If there is a little bloom off the tested experiencestress or hopethirsty changemonger rose, I don't think that's a big deal...

Dead on, if they both articulate the different ways they would govern, contrasting their policies vs the way McCain would govern, it would be great!

Leo

"3am" may have been small potatoes compared to what we've seen from Republicans, but the point is that by engaging in the tactics of the other you legitimize those tactics. I believe Obama has gotten a soft treatment by the press not only because of his charisma, but because of his fresh and positive message and refusal to go hard on Clinton. Whatever attacks the republicans make, Obama's halo will not tarnish in the media. Clinton's tactic may have worked, but by the next primary people will have gotten over the momentary fear instilled by that ad and see it for what it was - desperation.

Where I think you're mistaken is that Obama's halo will not tarnish in the media. It may not have tarnished if he were running in the general against, say, Mitt Romney, but come on...he'll be running against someone with an even more glowing media halo than he has, St. John of StraightTalkistan.

Against the Republicans, you have to hit back hard, and you have to take the initiative and hit them first. John Kerry tried to stay above it all, and look what happened to him...

Weyhey1:

So what was it when Obama called the Clintons racists despite their outstanding pro-Black record? All they said was that Lyndon Johnson deserves some of the credit for ending segregation, along with Martin Luther King: a statement of fact.

Obama's attack was pure gutter campaigning.

John Kerry is a good career politician with a long resume, but who couldn't really inspire anyone. Obama can not only "stay above" dirty politics, he can calmly and convincingly (and inspiringly) argue why they are harmful to America, effectively turning the tables. Because he is comparatively fresh to politics, he appeals to the outsider that hates politics for all the negativity. Let's face it, if 50% of the American population doesn't even vote in the presidential elections anymore, then there are a lot of outsiders.

I believe McCain will also run a fairly clean race, precisely because of who he is. He's already been distancing himself from the Republican attack machine. In fact I think that machine will lose most in the general, and show itself to be completely ineffective against the right kind of candidate.

LOL Where do you get your news, Granpat? Obama never called the Clintons racists. This is exactly what he said:

"What we saw this morning is why the American people are tired of Washington politicians and the games they play. But Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson. I didn't make the statement. I haven't remarked on it and she I think offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act. She is free to explain that, but the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."

wayhey1:

I believe McCain will also run a fairly clean race, precisely because of who he is. He's already been distancing himself from the Republican attack machine. In fact I think that machine will lose most in the general, and show itself to be completely ineffective against the right kind of candidate.

And who is he? A maverick straight-talker?

But, you're quite right about how he's been distancing himself from the Republican attack machine. But what was the result of that? The "Barry isn't patriotic" message still got out there (did it hurt him? Probably minimally if at all, but this is just the beginning), plus, as an extra added bonus, St. John, Crown Prince of Mavericktopia, gets credit for distancing himself from the very hate that is his only chance of getting elected.

Hey, I would love it if we can ride a message of positive change all the way to the White House. But it is not at all clear that we can do so, and if Obama is going to stake his whole campaign on the principle that we can do just that, that we can stay above the fray and inspire and that his unique charisma and magnetism will cause all the Republican attacks to fail, well, that's something we need to know. Because I've seen too many good men destroyed by that smear machine to not believe it can be simply transcended until I see it.

Not that I'm saying Obama is actually saying that, or that he can't fight hard when it comes to that, but I want to be absolutely sure that arrow is in the quiver if we need it. The stakes are too high to go into it without a plan B.

McCain does get credit for distancing himself, and he should. The more he does it, the more it gets discredited even among Republicans. It's the same attack machine that destroyed his nomination in 2000. He deserves a little payback, too. :)

I actually do want Obama (or McCain) to reach the Whitehouse in that very manner. Sets a really good example and a very high bar for anyone wanting to hold public office. That would even more important than winning itself, IMO.

wayhey1:

I actually do want Obama (or McCain) to reach the Whitehouse in that very manner.

...or Clinton for that matter, I should add. Recently she has demonstrated she'll fight dirty, which is disappointing. She could still turn it around though.