I can't afford a home in America, unless I'm willing to move to a state where I can't find a job. I make over 70K a year, and my wife's income added in puts us over 100K and we STILL can't afford a home, even with the housing prices declining.

Granted, I live in the Seattle area, so a lot of this is my own fault. But still, when I was living in Nevada, I couldn't afford a home, even when our combined income put us over 80K. In Vegas, a new starter home was 3 bed 2 bath (Because only condos did 1-2 bedrooms/1-2 bathrooms and those were skyrocketing even more in value) and was 400K starting, unless you wanted to live in the worst neighborhoods in Vegas, or an hour and a half out from the edge. Not worth it in my estimation, since I would have had to spend 2 hours in Vegas gridlock, or worry about being robbed every night (still can't decide which is worse).

So even with my 100K plus combined income, I still can't afford a house here in the Puget Sound region. I'm saving money for a down payment, I have excellent credit, and I'm aware of the upkeep costs that most people couldn't do. But I still can't afford a house here. Prices have only declined 10%, but in an area where a two-bed, one bath house still is 400K in the boonies, prices have a lot further to go.

I'm hoping that prices continue to fall, and that the housing prices decline up to about 40-50%. That's the only way short of moving to a state with a bad economy that I'll ever get into a house. Choosing a house as an investment vehicle and not as a place to live is one of the worst decisions we as a country have ever engaged in. Because now there's a large, relatively permanent underclass of non-home owners like me, in our twenties and thirties, who (if house prices stop now and begin recovering) will NEVER be able to own a home in our lifetimes.

Xaedalus:

...when I was living in Nevada, I couldn't afford a home, even when our combined income put us over 80K. In Vegas, a new starter home was 3 bed 2 bath (Because only condos did 1-2 bedrooms/1-2 bathrooms and those were skyrocketing even more in value) and was 400K starting, unless you wanted to live in the worst neighborhoods in Vegas, or an hour and a half out from the edge. Not worth it in my estimation, since I would have had to spend 2 hours in Vegas gridlock, or worry about being robbed every night (still can't decide which is worse).

The solution is for people like you to buy houses in the worst neighborhoods, get together with your neighbors to take firearms training and get carry permits, and for you and your neighbors to kill all the robbers who aren't deterred by this.

Of course, then the housing prices in your neighborhood might rise. But this is no different from when the pioneers settled the Wild West and tamed it.

I know your message is pretty serious... but I still laughed out loud when I read it. I do tend to agree with you on this, but the thought of armed yuppies retaking bad neighborhoods IS a little ridiculous to picture... in a good way.

Your inability to buy a house is not a tragedy in any sense of the word. Millions of people rent. No one ever guaranteed any American the privilege of home ownership. Do you have a roof over your head? Enough to eat? Adequate health care? If yes, then I see no reason to feel sorry for you.

Touche. Good point.

Sure, it's a good point, if Xaedalus or the article was arguing that we should feel sorry for him that he can't afford a nice house. However, both the article and the poster were arguing that IF we're feeling sorry for someone, a person like Xaedalus, who made responsible decisions with his money and showed restraint, is more deserving of sympathy than someone who bought a house they couldn't afford and now are crying foul. Landsburg makes an excellent point - the irresponsible person got to live in a nice house for X years, while Xaedalus did not.

A further, admittedly ridiculous corollary to this whining, is as follows. These home "owners" want to be bailed out because their investment didn't perform; how many of them have lined up to refund the money that they earned while the home prices were irrationally rising? If you expect me to bail you out from the ill effects of your poor financial decision, shouldn't I share in the positive effects of your good financial decisions? None of us would agree that was fair, and nobody is pushing for that (and no, I don't believe the additional taxes you may pay don't qualify as me sharing in that), and yet somehow, we're to believe that its converse is a national obligation?

I bought a foreclosure too!. We bought the foreclosure knowing it needed work. Rubber roof -, boiler - ($90 coupler, installed, NICE!), siding, floor joists, drywall, wood flooring rehab... Even with the cost of repairs figured in above our mortgage payment we still only paid 60 cents on the dollar. We make more than enough to live the look at me lifestyle, (we both make six figures) but prefer to cusom rehab a smaller, older home and drive cars we dont have payments on. My friends tried to make fun of me when they first saw what we had bought, but a year later its nearly done and everyone is jealous (no cookie cutter construction here and REAL hardwood floors not that float garbage). I didnt buy this to flip we bought knowing we'd be working m-f for the boss and s-s on the house for a year and a half. My father just bought a foreclosure 6 bd, 4 ba, 6 ca gar, 38 acres, with a stable and a pond in western SC for $250k. It needed appliances, two replacement windows, and some paint. We live on the coast so the bubble popped here first, but we WAITED for the bubble to break, no way on this earth would I pay $450k for 1200 sqft. Dont pity me -I got a super deal on my home. People - dont be afraid of the foreclosures, some of them are GREAT deals, and for godsakes dont let the loan officer tell you what you can afford or should get into, remember they work on comission -like car salesmen - and a fool and his money will soon be parted

Xaedalus, I hear ya.

All you have to do is wait. Historically, people who make median income (you), could afford median house prices.

That all went haywire when this real estate bubble began in the late 90's. Now, the median income and median housing prices have diverged to a point where people like you cannot afford to purchase a home.

But that is not likely to last. Even though Seattle housing prices are coming down slower than, say, California, it is most definitely coming down.

And while it may not come all the way back down to early 2000's prices (which is where it needs to be), the prices will most likely stagnate for next decade or so until the inflation catches up and the median income and median housing prices are in line again.

While that is going on, there are plenty of reasonable rentals that are available. Rent payments have stayed true to median income in the area and they are typically 40 to 50% less than a mortgage you would pay for a similar home (if you bought one). You should just rent, put away the difference for the downpayment later.

Not everything can happen when we want. But if you are patient, you will be rewarded.

I don't know if you are serious fsilber, and I hope you are being a little extreme to prove a point, but that is almost exactly what 'gentrification' is all about.

When my wife and I bought a 1930's 3-bed renovation in a bad neighborhood, we were the first middle income family on the block in quite some time. This neighborhood had all the pre-reqs for a rundown, in-town neighborhood - used to be middle class, then the economy went south, drugs and crime moved in, the middle class moved out and the neighborhood degenerated. 'Crack corner' was down the street, the boys still played poker on the driveway, and the Hop n Shop was not somewhere you wanted to be at night.

We did not move in with guns a-blazing. Instead we tried to get to know our neighbors, kept the yard nice, started pressuring our neighbors to do the same, and encouraged everyone to call the police the first sign of trouble. Luckily, our police force was VERY responsive and happy to help us clean up the area. We had an security alarm, but took off the window bars. We never had a gun, but never did have a break-in either. We ended up only calling the police about suspicious behavior twice. And once people see you aren't afraid to get the police involved, the incidence of crime on the street went way down.

Our neighbors were great, and once they knew we wanted to make the neighborhood better, they were right there with us. There is no substitute for watchful neighbors, especially if they are old ladies who have nothing better to do than keep a watch on things.

The right attitude and little kindness towards your neighbors goes a long way. A lot father than brandishing a weapon. That house we bought for under 200K and sold three years later for 270K.

It might be somewhat laughable, now. But, if this economy continues to decline, and if there is another attack similar to 9/11 you had better be armed and prepared to use you weapons, regardless of where you live. What happened in NO after Katrina will seem like childs play in a sand box in kindergarten and all the slime will come out of the wood work, not to mention you panicked neighbors whos wants and fear override common sense.

Right-wing survivalist nut-job fantasies aside, this is how bad neighborhoods become good. People with jobs and upward mobility buy houses in marginal neighborhoods because they are priced out of the "good" neighborhoods, then the marginal neighborhood becomes a "good" neighborhood due to the influx of people with jobs and upward mobility. People in their 50s live in houses they could never afford to buy NOW, but which were very affordable when they pioneered in the neighborhood 25 years earlier.

it was silly to posit that as a solution or as a reason not to empathize with the top poster. renting is like flushing money down the toilet. i've been renting in nyc for eight years and my rent is more than what my mom's mortgage originally was on her 3 br house with a friggin pool! also, when you are renting you have no say in how your apt looks and you have no stability.

there was a time when everyone understood that it was better to own than not. everyone aspired to own a house. what happened that people lost the desire? just because we've all lost the means?

i wonder if the person who wrote that top poster should be happy renting is one of those people who live in an apt. for 50 years, get's mad when they renovate it and raise the prices and then is forced to move out. (i used to work for a real estate company and saw this alot) somehow, people thought "but i've been living here for 50 years" entitled them to something. guess what. it doesn't.