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A Child Playing With An Uzi
by the_slasher14
+2/-1 Reply

I'm sorry -- when somebody says that 70% of all birth defects in a city are caused by 11% of the population, I hear Adolf Hitler talking. This is the sort of thing Hitler had to say about the Jews and gypsies, and Hitchens musters little more evidence to justify his rant than Hitler did.

Oh, sorry. He found a Muslim writer (a GOOD one) who said it. Well, then it must be true. But Hitler, no doubt, could have probably found a Jew or two to agree with him, and his American counterparts would have found that an easy task. Many of America's early Jews -- the ones who came before, say, 1880 -- were deeply ashamed of those Jews who arrived from Eastern Europe in the new century. The early Jews were from western Europe and were modern in dress and thought. Those who came after 1900 (including my grandparents) were rural, backward, and slower to assimilate. It would not have been difficult to find a Jewish writer of 1905 to claim that inbreeding among these people (who, like my first cousin maternal grandparents, came from a small rural backwater where the pool of marriage partners was limited) was causing birth defects. Hitchens' soul brothers in the social sciences would argue, as late as the 1920s, that tests administered by the Army during WWI "proved" that upwards of 70% of Italians, Hungarians, and Jews were "feeble-minded." Like Hitler, these people were not afraid to use the word "sterilization." And they dominated immigration policy in the USA for decades.

I guess what bothers me more than anything else is that Hitchens is making wildly inflammatory statements about an entire population and giving no more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. Are honor killings really common in England today, or is this the magnification of an incident or two? After all, incest and honor killings -- not to mention racially motivated murders -- were commonplace in certain regions of the United States right up to the latter part of this century. I can still recall hearing Sunday sermons which justified these events completely. Eventually, the United States did something about these backwaters -- some of which were not so back -- without demonizing white Protestants as a class.

But to take it yet another level deeper, does Hitchens really want to argue that the racial slur "wog," in today's Brtiain, is only applied to fundamentalist Muslims? That no Hindu or Sikh need fear racist attacks, because racial violence, as we all know, is only committed by those who make careful distinctions about those who they are attacking? Or is he not, with this kind of argument, giving aid and comfort to those who simply don't like dark-skinned people, or immigrants? We've all heard, I'm sure, about attacks on people of color here in the United States whose only crime was that they looked something like the 9/11 criminals. Hitchens rant implicitly justifies this, and if he doesn't know it, he's like a child playing with an Uzi.

Yes, it is right to denounce the tribal mentality brought onto the world stage by some fundamentalist Muslims. But it is NOT right to generalize it into an attack that -- because it totally lacks serious documentation or any level of distinction between those who attempt to promote their ideas by force and those who do not -- invites the reader to simply cast out an entire population.

And when readers do this, Hitchens of all people should know that, once one accustoms the public to the denunciation of entire populations, it won't stop with Muslim fundamentalists who arguably deserve censure. Those open to this kind of advocacy will put themselves at the service of any reactionary group which wants to use racism to promote its agenda. It is no coincidence that neo-Nazi groups are ALWAYS hard-right conservative in their non-race-related politics. It is not at all far-fetched to call this article an enabler of fascism.

And, of course, we all know why Hitchens wrote it. He supported the war in Iraq for reasons that, however honorable they may have been at one time, have long since ceased to be so. Rather than admit that he, along with the American people, were led into a disasterous decision by dishonest and incompetent leadership, he continues to find justifications for a war that isn't being won and never will be, because those who started it have no interest in winning it, just in using it to justify their hold on power.

I had always thought Hitchens was simply deluded, but it seems to have gone beyond that by now. Now he has left his moorings completely, and joined forces with the very racists he denounces.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by SandyHook
please spare us the everyone you disagree with is a Nazi tripe
Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by Dr. Geek
Godwin's Law?
Goodwin's law is tripe
by Beaujoe

Goodwin's "law" only serves to protect those whose attitudes hew a tiny bit too close to fascism. It's supposed purpose - to protect people being compared to Nazis - is unnecessary. A truly ridiculous Nazi comparison is truly ridiculous on its face, in which case "Goodwin's law" simply recognizes the obvious. On the other hand when somebody hews a little to closely to fascist ideals or thought processes, "Goodwin's Law" serves to protect them from being called out.

In short Goodwin's law is an example of the way we codify civility in such a way that we obstruct the honest assessment of ideas and of people.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by bethree5
I agree that Hitchens appeared to move well beyond the pale in his last four paras.-- although I wouldn't have minded hearing the 'inbred' bit if he'd had several solid sources. However, I still say the commentary was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual weak-kneed hat-tipping to the motives which may lie behind acts of terrorism.
Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by the_slasher14

I didn't say Hitchens was a Nazi. I said his words gave aid and comfort to those who would practice racist violence, as the Nazis did.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by the_slasher14

I'm sorry -- what is Godwin's (Goodwin's?) law? Never heard of it.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by the_slasher14

You'll get little argument from me, friend. I make no apology for Muslim fundamentalism.

But there are many, many people who believe things I don't but who cannot be held responsible for acts that others of similar belief do in their name. Is every anti-abortion Catholic to be held responsible for clinic bombings? Does every pro-Israel Jew bear responsibility for the assassination of the Israeli prime minister by a radical settler? Are all blacks to be blamed for those who beat a white truck driver during a riot, or all whites for what happened to Rodney King?

The line Hitchens crossed, in my mind, was to imply that all Muslim fundamentalists share responsibility for what happened in England last week. Had he reinforced this point by showing how they were complicit, I would consider that legitimate. It is reasonable to state, for example, that the Taliban shares responsibility for 9/11. Even though it did not commit the crime itself, the support it gave to Al Queda -- both before and after the deed -- indicates it was part of the problem. It is reasonable to argue that Saudis who finance madrasses that preach jihad are complicit in violence.

Hitchens did not show any of this. Instead, he libelled Muslim fundamentalists as inferior human beings and derided some of their beliefs as without showing that they were involved in violence.

That's racism, and I make no apology for calling it that.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by Summer Seale

It isn't racism because Islam is not a race.

How many times do you liberals have to hear that to understand? Islam is not a race. Get it yet? Hating Islam does not make you a racist. I hate Islam. I am not a racist. There are white, black, red, brown and yellow Muslims. I don't hate the color of their skin or their native geographic region, but I do hate their system of beliefs. That means I am not a racist, rather I am a reasoning human being who studied their philosophy and found it to be absolutely ridiculous and disgusting.

Get it already?

Defining Godwin's Law...
by Freditor_G Editor

It's a rule of internet chatboard discussions that's been around for... at least a decade. It goes something like this:

"As a discussion on a chatboard continues, the probability of someone getting called a Nazi rises towards 1."

The point being that calling someone a Nazi is sort of the universal flame of desperation... Interestingly, I think the Law itself has lost much predictive power... these days, calling someone a Nazi is usually too tame to have much shock value, and more conversations seem to veer off into accusations of rape or pedophilia.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by Vince

You might want to read the piece more carefully. The 70% of defects coming from 11% of the population was not from Muslims, rather from the group of families that had intermarried and practiced "incest in all but name". Race or religion is has no bearing on his argument. It is simple biology. Any group where cousins marry and immediate family members procreate, defects will follow.

Re: Defining Godwin's Law...
by Beaujoe

THe difference being that accusations of rape and pedophilia are usually designed to be offensive and outrageous and only really occur when the argument has devolved into name calling. Accusations of naziism on the other hand, while they can be considered "name-calling" actually serve the argument at times.

They can also be the argument.
by Freditor_G Editor

I agree with your point above (well-made, btw).

In American discourse, the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" have become floating signifiers for "bad politics." That looseness of terminology bothers me, because it leaves the ideology originally described by both terms unnamed and hard to spot.

There is still a thing under there, which should be called by a proper name and properly denounced.

Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by Joanie
Hitchens comments on Islamists and their discrimination against women are valid. Anyone who doubts this should read sharia law, and by the way sharia law it is supported by all 'mainstream' Moslems - I will be happy to be corrected on that if I am wrong.
While only a few Moslems end up planting bombs, all supporters of sharia law and imams teachings deny equal rights to women. Apparently a lot of people don't want to accept that fact.
Re: A Child Playing With An Uzi
by jsolbakken

I don't understand this recurring accusation of racism against people who are discussing behavior, beliefs, culture, religion, law, or anything but "race."

Seems to me that telling us that Hitch has joined forces with racists he used to denounce destroys the credibility of that person. It's just too absurd on its face, so the accusation of racism is obviously just an agitprop device intended to manipulate any unwary readers out there into not noticing the weakness of the actual argument presented.

There is clearly nothing unreasonable about being concerned about where the violent sects of Islam intend to go with their jihads. So, it seems reasonable for me to surmise that there isn't a good argument against whatever Hitch thinks helpful for protecting women or whomever might be standing around minding their own business when they get blown up by a crazy jihadi.

James

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