What the heck was Detective Munch doing at the cop bar?

Slumming with his Baltimore brothers in blue? Wasn't he already busy with investigating crimes in the 16 Law & Order spinoffs? Or did we just see the jumping off point for "Law & Order SVU: Baltimore Bitey?"

I for one do not understand the purpose, in a great show like the Wire, of throwing a gratuitous cameo in. "It is Season 5, let's do something different...I know! Let's use that Munch guy whose agent has been calling us nonstop since Season 4 in the cop bar scene!"

The use of Rawls in the gay bar scene (of, what was it, Season 3?) is a fun and interesting twist. The use of Munch in the cop bar in Season 5 is a sad reach that makes no sense whatsoever.

Sopranos pulled this in their later seasons - we get stuck with Jets coach Eric Mangini, Nancy Sinatra, and others WHO DO NOT MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD AT ALL, but instead simply detract from the show and make it look like the writers are treading water.

Any ideas? Why was Detective Munch at this cop bar, other than he is a cop, and he and his agent wanted him to appear in the #1 cop show ever?

BigA

Clearly you have not watched the Baltimore based (and sublime) NBC series "Homicide", which is based on David Simon's book of the same name. If you had, you would know that Munch (yes, played by Richard Belzer) was a Baltimore homicide detective in that show, and that the Law and Order and Homicide universes coexisted (in fact some storylines were shared by the two shows). So, although Munch eventually moved to NYC, it is not unthinkable that he would return to his home town from time to time to argue about the ethics of collecting bar tabs.

I like cameos like this. Several characters from Simon's earlier works and life have popped up in the show. It doesn't necessarily MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD, but it's not as if we had to sacrifice meaningful episode time to a gratuitous and meaningless appearance.

Rhayader already summed this up pretty nicely. I have heard some petty knocks bandied about these threads in regard to Season 5, but this is one of the worst (apart from one of the Slate guys BLOWING IT by completely misidentifying McNulty's tipple of choice as something other than Jameson). A) Everyone who knows anything about cop shows knew about 'Homicide', as Belzer, together with Braugher and Kotto, was one of the principal characters, and the friggin' series was on primetime, on a major network (NBC), for SIX YEARS, and was helmed by Barry Levinson, an acclaimed director; B) who cares? Even if he hadn't ever appeared in 'Homicide' and didn't have that obvious link to the genre and city, it's not like he would have been totally out of place. It isn't like they were photoshopping in an image of Alec Guinness or something. "A sad reach"?
Hyperbolic much?

Homicide? Sorry, never saw it. Before my time.

I knew Belzer was "Detective Munch" for some reason, and I recall a comedian (Bill Maher?) abusing Belzer for the omnipresence of the character in series after series. It seems like this was more of the same attempt to perpetuate the Munch character, this time for no apparent reason.

In any event, thank you for the education. I now know Detective Munch had ties to Baltimore and is a threat to visit periodically from New York. This knowledge makes me a more complete individual.

Nevertheless, I still do not see the point of him being in this episode, other than the "Ooooh, Detective Munch!" factor. I'd rather have seen, say, Bunny, Herc, or someone who had at least some connection to the present story instead of some other story.

A reach.

BigA

Also, as the camera moved down the bar in that scene, we saw Jay Landsman, the real life inspiration for the character of John Munch. It was sort of a full circle kinda deal. And as someone for whom "Homicide" is a classic show (before your time? what are you, 12?), I enjoyed the cameo. I also think they've earned it. Also, what Bill Maher was referring to was the fact that the character of "Munch" has appeared in something like 7 shows. I think the Wire guys were just adding to the tally and nodding their heads to the show that gave them their start. But I guess they should have checked with you first, eh?

BigA--

It's not like we spent 5 minutes listening to Munch gab about Law and Order. The camera panned past him while showing Gus entering the bar; even if it had no real purpose for the story, was it really an intrusion? If somebody we did not recognize was shown having that conversation, would we ever have even noticed?

They did a similar thing with George "Blue" Epps, one of the people featured in Simon's book The Corner. He was in Butchie's bar, having a bar room conversation. He was merely there to add atmosphere, so I thought it was an appropriate cameo. This is the same type of situation, so I don't really see what makes this a "reach".

Also, one final thing: how old are you? If "Homicide" was before your time, I wonder how you can be old enough to really appreciate The Wire. Homicide ran on a major network from 1993 to 1999, and there was a TV movie in 2000. Are you really so young that you were not watching TV during those years?

clarknova: Also, as the camera moved down the bar in that scene, we saw Jay Landsman, the real life inspiration for the character of John Munch.

Well, to be fair, Jay Landsman plays Dennis Mello, a recurring character who has been in The Wire since season 2. So for him, appearing in the bar scene was not a cameo or a reference; it was Mello hanging out at the bar.

I disagree. I know he plays Mello, and another actor plays Landsman (confusingly!), but I don't see it as coincidence that the real life inspiration for Munch was literally two stools down the bar from him. Nothing David Simon does is arbitrary. This is a double inside moment they couldn't do on Homicide.

clarknova I don't see it as coincidence that the real life inspiration for Munch was literally two stools down the bar from him.

I'm not saying it's a coincidence; I'm sure you're right, it was intentional. What I was saying was that Landsman wasn't at the bar as some sort of reference to Munch; if anything it was the other way around. The primary reason for having Lt. Mello at the bar in that scene was his conversation with Gus.

Point taken. I wasn't saying that the only reason Landsman was there was for the Munch cameo, and you're right, the main reason was the scene with Gus. But c'mon, the way the scene was shot, going down the bar from Munch to Landsman, was clearly designed to draw the throughline, no? And if they didn't have Munch in the scene, Gus could have been coming to talk to any older cop, right?

Also the actor playing Gus also played Munch's partner on Homicide and was co-owner of the bar!!!!