I was told on here that if I didn't believe in god....I would burn in the lake of fire.

Someone said only Christianity can provide spirituality. No other religion can provide a spirituality, except Christianity?

Before I continue, I wish not to disgust people on here, but I will provide my own version of spirituality, how I release my spirituality, and how I enjoy my own form of spirituality. I wish not to upset people, so I am trying to give you a heads up.

I am Scottish, Cherokee Indian, and German. I enjoy nature to a great extent, and once a year, or when possible, I venture out to the plateaus of New Mexico, or the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. I go to release the pressures of work, family, and life.

I first very carefully plan my endeavor, picking areas where the sounds of human life can not be heard, no rumbling of cross country semi-trucks, or where the sounds of car horns, jets, or even a cell phone can reach.

I set up camp, a tent, hammock, a fire pit, and this is about 10-15 miles away from my truck. I walk from the point of parking, until the day starts turning dark, and when it does I make camp. I park at the very start of day break, 5am.

I spend the night sitting by the fire, making a carved spit, and lugging rocks to surround my fire. I pick my locations decided on a river, or branch creeks, and by the setting, and rising of the sun. Sometimes I go during winter, fall, spring, or summer.

The next day I pull out my hand crafted(by me) Maple, and Walnut long bow, along with several hand crafted arrows, with stone tips, and feathered wings. I dress like normal, minus the moccasin shoes, and set out. I walk for sometime, never ignoring my need to be quiet. I hunt, silent footed, and naturally.

When, and if I find a kill, and get lucky, I take my shot. I have never once set out and didn't get something. Always deer, or once a antalope...I skin the kill, portion the meat, and take what I can carry. I harvest the pelt, antlers, the heart and 75% of the meat. If after two days, I have had no luck, I fish the river or creeks....New Mexico is a great cut-throat trout area.

Anyways.

When I get back to camp, I season the loin, and heart. Then feed the fire, and cook my meal. I enjoy the meal.

I savor the meat, and spend my night quietly pondering thoughts about all the men, and women who lived this way before me, and before god. I sit back, and enjoy a few puffs off a homemade stone pipe, and then I break out my small set of African drums. I beat these drums in rhythm for hours, and then lay down for the night. I spend three-four days like this.

The basic idea is to allow the true human inside of me a few days to live. I allow myself to get back to the basics, and allow the animal in me a few days to breath. Being agnostic, this is the closest form of religion/spirituality I have found that works for me.

I believe I reach deep into my own self, and release the part of me that needs to be free. This is my spirituality, and I feel great after the trip is over.

I thank no one, but the land, and the people who thousands of years before me, and god... did the same as me, but lived that way....

This is my spirituality....

I was struck by the similarity of this to what an acquaintance (a good friend of a good friend) described to me a few years ago -- the fact that his tradition would seemingly be so different from your makes it more striking.

He is a South African Muslim of Indian ancestry (as is our mutual friend through which I met him). He is fairly devout (prays towards Mecca 5 times per day, observes Islamic dietary laws etc -- but does drink beer and wine.

As he describes it, he also makes similar hunting excursions into the bush, 2-3 times per year. When he makes his kill, he butchers it according to his tradition, which includes immediately cutting the throat to properly bleed the animal, and then saying prayers for the animal as it bleeds out -- in a way that reminded me very much of American Indian traditions -- thanking the animal for giving up its life to provide sustenance to him and his family.

Like you, he ceremonially prepares certain cuts and cooks and eats them there, and spends several days in meditation and contemplation.

First, I find your idea quite beautiful. My pantheon has a god, Ullr, who seems to represent that sort of experience (he is the god of the hunt, and of winter storms). When I was reading your account, I was thinking how much it related to my sense of Ullr....

As for being an agnostic-- I will post soon about my thoughts relating to the existence of gods-- it is an inherently unknowable question and probably the truth is somewhere other than a "yes" or a "no" as we might envision the question in normal language. It is also something where the best we can do is metaphor. The problem is that many times it is easy to confuse the map with the territory.* (This is also why I try to congratulate people when they break through this even for a moment, and even if this is not their normal approach.)

* Except in this case, it is dark, and as much as we can sorta remember the map, we can't really compare it directly to the territory

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

I guess I basically boil myself down to a primitive state, without any true praying, or certain regulated prayers. I do however thank the animal for its life, and strange as it may sound...as I butcher, or clean the deer...I often find myself humming some strange "Indian like" hums.

It is interesting that when man does cast away his/her outer shell of social correctiveness, and allows a part of their primitive humanity to see light of day, we often resort to meditation, and contemplation. Which even though we can not truly return to the wild as the humans we once were, when we do allow this to occur, we often feel refueled, and strong again...because I believe humans lose a part of them when they cover their heart in modern humanity.

Being free, and living in the wild is a great feeling, and is very relaxing....interesting....I'm not alone...

Thank you.

scj

When the going gets tough, the tough go camping...........LOL

An ordeal worthy of a naive 12 year old boy.

Spirituality? Walk out with a knife,a canteen,a length of rope and appropriate clothing and stay for 30 days. That would be the beginning of a Spiritual experience...stay there for 6 months and a different person returns...LOL.

A little more....

Let's see...in 97...I spent three days in Lower Colonies, Pecos, New Mexico. Where I met a stone carver Zuni Indian named Kieth.

I didn't get a kill, so I traced the edge of part of the Pecos river, and ended up in a 200 year old abandoned village. Where a church was the only building, besides a few adobe homes that was left standing. I walked the dirt trail, and bumped into Kieth, sanding away at a hunk of Pink quarts granite. A tall, skinny, long haired Zuni Indian, covered in dust, wearing jeans, and a old Op t-shirt.

We spent sometime talking, before he "honestly" asked me if I was a ghost. (no joke) I said no..and he said this land was full of ghosts, "men who walk out of the woods", and visit him..after sometime, and a few puffs on the old pipe, the Zuni asked me if I would like to see his art work. He had a few pieces of carvings. Mostly "Corn" gods, playing flutes, and in a dancing stances. I asked him what they were, and he replied.."My gods of my culture, and the people of my past."

We spent the rest of the day, talking, and smoking, and he even offered to carve me a stone pipe. "If you come back tomorrow, I will have it ready for you"...he said.

I went back to my camp, after fishing, and catching a dozen medium sized trout. I ate, and went right to sleep. I awoke at dawn, and hurried back to the trail, and made it back to this village. I knocked at his door, and then waited...nothing, after a few hours of waiting for him below at the creek beds, I returned back to my little camp....on one of the rocks around my fire pit, was a beautifully carved pink granite pipe, with dancing Zunis on the fluted end. On my spit, a hunk of mule deer, roasting away...and no Kieth...

I went back to his house later that evening, with some of the meat he had given me...he was sitting outside, with a malamute...(large wolf like dog)...the dog rushed off as I walked up....Kieth stood up, and met me on the path...

I offered him the meat left overs, and to help me break in the pipe...we spent a while talking again..."I asked him about the dog....and he said the dog didn't belong to him, that the dog was one of his ghosts from the wilderness, that visits...."He comes as a dog some days, and as a old man on others, he sits and talks to me, and then he leaves."

Then he said.."I thought you were another ghost, I decided to offer you a gift, so that you would be my friend, and return."

I asked.."So am I still a ghost to you now?"

His answer...."Only part of you is a ghost, and thats how you found me, I can see that there is some Native American in you, and that part of you lead you to me....we were friends before we met...." At this time in my life, I also had long hair, and still was a major stoner...

I guess somewhere in my heart is a piece of the old lives that came before me, and this meeting was no coincidence. I believe it was meant to be, and from that day forward, I have found solace in being in the wild.

Kieth still lives in this small village...you can find it with google earth....if you look close enough, you'll find the old Catholic Church...at the end of the road is his house.

This was a moment in life I will never forget, and forever will cherish. His art work sells for five figures a piece....but still lives in this old adobe home in the middle of nowhere...

Spirituality is in everyone, but not one religion can claim to be the only one that allows true spirituality, for I have found it, without praying to gods.

Ignoring is bliss!!

Fred Bear-Ted Nugent

There I was, back in the wild again
And I felt right at home where I belong
I had that feelin' comin' over me again
Just like it happened so many times before

The spirit of the woods is like an old good friend
It makes me feel warm and good inside
I knew his name and it was good to see him again
'Cuz in the wind he's still alive

Oh, Fred Bear, walk with me down the trails again
Take me back, back where I belong
Oh, Fred Bear, I'm glad to have you at my side, my friend
And I'll join you in the big hunt before too long
Before too long

It was kinda dark, another misty dusk
And it came from a tangle down below
I tried to remember everything he taught me so well
I had to decide which way to go

Was I alone or in a hunter's dream?
'Cuz the moment of truth was here and now
I felt his touch, I felt his guiding hand
The buck was mine, forevermore

Because of Fred Bear
I'll walk down these trails again
Take me back where I belong
Oh, Fred Bear, I'm glad to have you at my side my friend
And I'll join you in the big hunt before too long
We're not alone when we're in the great outdoors
We got his spirit, we've got his soul
He will guide our steps, he'll guide our arrows home
The restless spirit forever roams

Fred Bear, walk with me down the trails again
Take me back, back where I belong
Oh, Fred Bear, I'm glad to have you at my side, my friend
And I'll join you on the big hunt before too long

Oh, Fred Bear, walk with me down the trails again
Take me back, back where I belong
Oh, Fred Bear, I'm glad to have you at my side, my friend
And I'll join you in the big hunt before too long

In the wind he's still alive
In the wind he's still alive
In the wind he's still alive
In the wind he's still alive
In the wind, I hear, I hear Fred Bear

(I hear ya Fred,
Talk to me,
yea ,
its all right
lets go hunting baby
Say Fred, you go up on that ridge
And I'll go down in the swamp
We'll get that buck)

(Fred Bear)
(If some of our teenage thrill seekers really want to go out and get a thrill.
Let them go up into the north west and let them tangle with a Grizzly bear
or Polar bear or brown bear and get that effect that will cleanse the soul)

The love of the wilderness i attribute to your Cherokee ancestry. The love of planning and organisation I attribute to the German ancestry. But the complete lack of a good malt? Are you sure about that Scottish ancestry?

My beliefs and ancestry are very similar to yours, and I'm pretty proud of my mutt heritage of German and Indian. I also find the spirituality of communing with nature a great comfort.

I grew up in southern Texas just outside of San Antonio. My grandfather was the biggest influence on me, he was a full blooded American Indian. He taught me how to hunt, fish and track. He was a Christian, where as I believe in one God, a spirit. I believe in Christ's teachings but don't believe he was God. But then I like Bhudda's teachings as well.

I look for a communion with the spirit, and search for spiritual peace and find it when I go hiking the mountains in southern Arizona or when I return to the family ranch.

Hey kharma, which mountains in southern AZ? I grew up SE AZ, base of Mt. Graham.

I'm at the foot of Huachuca Mountain, little town of Sierra Vista not far from Tombstone.

I love it here, but I would prefer Texas. If it wasn't for the hassle of needing to have a job I would be there or some South Pacific Island.

Very familiar with Sierra Vista , beautiful area. Born in Morenci, raised in Safford, been in AZ all my life.

I love it here, like I said. It is beautiful and the trails are great but it's colder than what I'm used to, it snowed here last week.

spock:

The love of the wilderness i attribute to your Cherokee ancestry. The love of planning and organization I attribute to the German ancestry. But the complete lack of a good malt? Are you sure about that Scottish ancestry?

I have a tendency to drink McEwans Scotch Ale, from time to time, and New Castle Brown Ale, and every once in a while...Goosers Australian Malt.

I just noticed, when I do a spell check on my user name, the spelling sugestion comes up with "Pitchfork"...no wonder these religion hatemongers attack me......lol!!!