Memo to student supporters of Obama:
'Do not...' I repeat, 'Do not try this at home.'

If you pull an Obama in school, you're out.
For student term papers what Obama did is called plagiarism.
And it doesn't even matter if you steal from your best friend!!

Apparently, in politiics, lying is now expected.
The same behavior for real people remains just what it is - dishonest.

This is not school and nobody stole anything or lied. Life need not be footnoted to be authentic.

The fact that Hillary herself chose to excerpt others' lines during the very same debate shows how pathetically stupid this whole argument is... The fact that she was hissed at by the crowd when she laboriously trudged this dumb argument up shows how poorly it played... and the fact that you are still trying to kick this dead dog into moving just shows how disconnected you are.

That is the nature of rhetoric.

I'll give you this challenge, which you simply cannot accomplish: Find one single campaign speach from a democratic or republican nominee, EVER, that did not contain lines and phrases that were first used by others.

If you can find EVEN 1... then get back to me.

You won't.

"I'll give you this challenge, which you simply cannot accomplish: Find one single campaign speach from a democratic or republican nominee, EVER, that did not contain lines and phrases that were first used by others."

Oh, I could do it, but in the original Latin.

What we should remember is that candidates hire speech writers. They're not using their own words, anyway.

I hope the Clinton campaign stops with this, it isn't a fair criticism of Obama (and I'm not one of his cheerleaders)

The way Obama plagiarizes other peoples' words without credit, and then the media and his followers give fawning praise no matter how clueless he is, why, that makes me proud to be an American for the first time!

Come on Texas: you can spot a protected phony when you see one. Why do you think he criticizes CEO's but also champions charter schools? Obama knows nothing about your state, except maybe where he can score some good dope near Austin...

"The way Obama plagiarizes other peoples' words without credit, and then the media and his followers give fawning praise no matter how clueless he is"

He should have given credit, but the problem is that Clinton, McCain, all of them do the same thing. They have speech writers, so it's not their own words anyway. And the speech writers borrow from other speech writers.

It's more effective to target something else, say his lack of policy knowledge, or lack of any major legislative accomplishments.

well everyone already knows about his lack of policy knowledge and lack of legislative accomplishments and his followers and the media don't care about those things. The media liked 'W' too.

Obama is reviled for his great, inspiring speeches, and not so much for his policies. So if you are reviled for something, and it doesn't originate from you, what does that make you? A poser? An actor?

NOTE: I'm not trying to knock Obama, I'm just following a line of reasoning here.

I know you are right, about the myth of Obama being a great speaker, strikes me as oh so Reagan-esque. I never thought Reagan was the 'great communicator.' Everytime I heard someone say that, I thought of the Harlem Globetrotter named "Curly." (who was bald). People were making fun of the Gipper, right? Obama is the same way. Did you listen to his long speech from Houston the other night? Once I say a man in a grocery store freeze for several seconds, then fall on the floor (with either a seizure or a stroke). That's what the Obama speech was like (for those of us really watching--rather than unquestioningly loving it).

There might be a point in there somewhere. I think it was "I don't like like Obama!"

Good for you.

You may disagree with his policy, but you can't say he doesn't have it, without revealing yourself to be just parroting what you have heard. Go to his website, you will find plenty of policy, in more detail than you may care to read.

As far as his accomplishments, they too are well-documented, not only on his website, but in the Senate record, and all throughout the blogosphere. You are completely free to choose a different candidate, but doing so on the basis of ignorance and then broadcasting untruths founded on your ignorance is irresponsible, at best, and reprehensible at worst.

Reviled means to be spoken of negatively. Is that what you mean? Because it doesn't make sense.

Sen. Obama may be praised for his speeches, but those are the icing on the cake, it is his vision and competence that are the basis of his candidacy, and if you don't know about those, it is not his fault, but yours.

No, just distracted in trying to do 2 thing at once...

What I've seen most places on the web is that the policies of both candidates are very similar. In fact, from what I heard on NPR, Obama had copied a lot of Clinton's economic plan. Personally, I like Clinton's healthcare plan better, but I would have liked Kucinich's most of all.

Both candidates have accomplishments. You may want to ignore Clinton's, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have any.

Obama is REVERED for his inspirational speeches, and Clinton gets the nod for competance, from what I've read.

So, what I'm asking is, if all else is equal, where does that leave us with the speeches? What from Obama's speeches are ideas that originated with him? This isn't a rhetorical question, I would really like some info. Please don't tell me to go watch them. I don't have time, and I don't find them interesting enough to watch all the way through. I've tried. If you could please skip to the relevant stuff, that would be helpful in convincing me to support him instead of McCain in November.

All else is not equal: see <link>

I can send more on his accomplishments and policies if you like, but I think that is one of the best analyses I've seen.

Also, just because the speeches sound good, doesn't mean they don't say something. If you listen you will hear a strong vision for where the country can go, which is what has been lacking in the political responses to Bush-Cheney-Rice's America: not just an idea of where we don't want to go, but an idea of where we do...strength, leadership and compassion in the world and at home.

And if that's too fluffy for you, try McCain's recent reversal on torture. What is the point of sending soldiers to die for American values, if we jettison the values for which we have been admired and emulated and in which we can find our greatest source of national pride?

Apparently Hillary flunks too:

<link>

Or are you a pathetic hypocrite like Hillary?