(repost from a deeper thread)

There are numerous reasons to not desitre to breastfeed. We can not distinguish the woman who was molested as a child and has an emotional aversion to one who would just rather not. Though human milk will always be superior to formula that will just not matter to some.

But..to say this:

"There is no harm in allowing a baby to have supplemental formula until the milk is in."

I beg to differ. This is monumental misinformation and it shakes me up to know that this person is caring for mothers and babies at such a piviotal part of the breastfeeding relationship.

Marsha Walker wrote an excellant article called Supplementation in the Breastfed baby "Just one Bottle Won't Hurt - or Will it?" about the effects of introducing non-human milk products to the neonate gut. <link>

We do not see the phyisolgical norm in hospitals in relation to birth and breastfeeding. The birth experience can impact the breastfeeding experience to an enourmous degree.

Keep baby with mom. Too often ignorance reigns regarding the the need for mom's biology to have baby around. Tt is more than you push out your baby then milk comes out your boobs. You can't just look at each as independant beings...the mother baby dyad is just that a dyad, they are symbiotic and eacha re dependant on the other for complete the hormonal balance.

Until that is recognised by hospitals and women in general, we will continue to see women have difficulties breastfeeding

Also colostrum is does not have a huge amount of fluid in it. Babies are born with extra fluid on board to level out the playing field of needed fluid for survival (hence the weight loss after birth). If an infant is nursng all the time it is priming the breasts prolactin receptors so that that the mom can make milk. Take that baby away and feed it so it does not stimulate it's mother breasts and those receptor sites shut down...and then what happens...the mother goes home and is not making as much milk as she should.....and down the slippery slope we go.

What we need is consistant care by consistant caregivers a common understanding of the biologogy of the hormones of childbirth and lactation giving consistant information.

And yes mothers who have breast reductions can breastfeed. My friend was one and actually produced more milk for the second child!

http://www.bfar.org/ this is the orgnaization for breastfeeding after reduction.

I always say, if the intentions are to keep all normal and the baby is kept at the center of all the choices (and the mother and baby are idealy kept together) ....then the right choices will always be made and everyone will be happy...especially the baby. And sometimes that means doing something other than exclusively feeding breasmilk.

(I nursed twins with one breast and never gave supplements they nursed for well over ...well they nursed for a long time).

Ok I am not entirely sure what this whole thing was about but I would like to. In reply to the supplementation thing I was always told that if you are going to breastfeed only you should not allow any supplementation until after your milk comes in. Of course there are special cases that come into play here. Supplementing before your milk comes in can damage your breastfeeding because if you give your baby a bottle it will make them full and then tired and then they won't want to breastfeed. So take a tip if you are going to breastfeed don't supplement before your milk comes in. (Special cases do not apply.)

If you read the Marsha Walker article you will see that the infant gut (stomach and intestines) are concidered "open" meaning they will let large protien molecules through. Colostrum is the really the only substance that the gut should get as it is biologically meant to be the first thing that the gut gets exposed to after birth. The colostrum has a protective factor as well the gut can easily absorb the colostrum contents.

IF the baby gets a formula, the gut is forever changed, the pH is changed the large milk protiens get through which predisposes the baby to becoming sensitive to milk and developing allergies....

The whole nipple confusion thing can happen as well. The baby who has never sucked on anything except maybe his or her hand inutero will learn quickly how to place a thing that is placed in its mouth, sucking is reactive, but preference as to how to suck is learned. This is why babes who have a poor latch have a hard time unlearning and mommies pay the price with hamburger nipples by day two of life. if one keeps switching back and forth from breast to nipple...well you can see the problem easily. It takes work to learn how to get the nipple to the back of the mouth.

Breastfeeding is easy to screw up. And just because your your care giver gives advice, does not mean it is right.

We are at time where we need to self educate and not depend so much on what is given to us. A second opinion is always a good thing especially if you are told to stop breastfeeding by your MD.

Babies can develop poor latches for a variety of reasons...it usually begins with the manner win which they were born and which drug is circulating in their system at the time.

Babies know how to latch...we just keep interfering with. This is an amazing video of a baby self latching. While the infant could use a bit of help, the point is...it will do it on it's own. <link>

This one is also a great video as it compares latching for medicated to unmedicated babies.

I was wondering how long it would take for the even more vitrolic debate about epidurals (I assume that what you mean by medication) to be started.

Like someone else said, I have no clue what began your post, but here goes.

1) Not all women CAN breast-feed. Some babies are adopted or there may be other problems, such as excessive tenderness which makes the nursing experience not a joyful one for either mother or baby.

2) Some women need to return to work, and pumps can't supply the full amount the baby wants. I firmly believe a woman's body belongs to her, even AFTER giving birth. If she doesn't want to share with baby, she shouldn't be forced to when there is a viable alternative. (Remember the concept of wet nurses?)

3) Some women take medications or eat food which the baby should not have or which the baby is intolerant of. If a woman drinks heavily or smokes, I'd much prefer to see that kid with a bottle.

4) Some women produce milk by the gallon. I know I donated literally gallons to the milk bank when my oldest was a baby. However, just as all cows aren't bred for milk, neither are all women. Some don't produce enough to satisfy a growing child, or several.

Personally, I'm a lot more irritated by toddlers and even school-aged children who run around with sippy cups and bags of snacks (usually junk food), even for a 20 minute trip to the library or other places with a "no food or drinks" policy. Additionally, if they can talk, they need to learn to keep "binkie" at home or only use for naptime.

You're making assumptions for one, and two, making accusations about vitriole in an awfully vitriolic fashion, when all the poster stated was what is an incontrovertible fact, that medication can affect the baby's ability to latch on.

As usual the discussion goes this way because it is a volitile subject.

I have an extensive burn injury that renders me with one operational boob. Yet I fed twins without supplementing. This was probably becuase I had good support and we watched for it not working, I would have supplemented in a flash had I not been able to give the girls what they needed.

I had support, I had good easy births, and the babes were healthy and never left my side (well son #1 was "so I could rest" and I had problems until i got to my out-of-hospital LC 3 days later). Maybe that is why I never encountered problems. I work to help prevent problems. if a mom says to me I'm adopting I say "did you know you can breastfeed an adopted baby, maybe not 100% but if you want i can show you how", if a mom says "I had breast reduction I say " you can still breastfed, maybe not 100% but if it means that much to you, you can try". if a mom says I quit breastfeeding but I wish I hadn't i say "would you like to ge your supply back, maybe not 100% but if it means that much to you, i can help"....and on and on...

he theme..the mom must want and she must have committed help.

the birth process has become so far from normal that to expect breastfeeding to begin normally is near impossible. It is called the side effects of our choices, or the side effects of the interventions applied to the birth process.