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I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by just_that_chick
+1 Reply

I submitted my Dear Prudence letter on something of a whim - I’ve often enjoyed reading this column in the past (although I do think the “old” Prudence’s answers were more in keeping with the advice I’d give, if asked).

Reading the comments left here, I’d like to clarify a few things that seem to have been misunderstood (or insufficiently explained by me initially, as I needed to be brief). Emily Yoffe’s reply was adequate and about what I expected, but it seems like there might be a few game souls posting here who are willing to share their own experiences without assuming that I’m just snotty and impossible to please. So:

  1. First off, I do not in ANY WAY consider myself “better” than my current partner. One of the things I love about him is that he knows how to do lots and lots of things that I don’t. This is not about relative “market worth” or my being able to land some kind of bigger fish. It’s about my not having experienced this particular kind of relationship before, and a SLIGHT worry I have that what’s not problematic now might be in the future. If that wasn’t clear, my bad.

  1. My wasband and I were together for 14 years, married for eight. We were both youngish (23 and 27) when we married. Toward the end it was clear that the only thing keeping us together was good conversations, and so I’m amply aware that that’s not enough to sustain a partnership.

  1. Aside from my marriage, I have not had many other relationships, and so the only “model” I was going on when I reentered the dating scene was the one I knew - and one that worked very, very well for almost half my life, I might add. Knowing that I’d loved my husband’s mind and our shared interests, I went down that road in seeking a new partner.

  1. The dates were pretty bad. Although I liked most of the guys okay (and we certainly had lots to talk about), there was always something just sort of… off, personality-wise: rudeness to waitstaff, for example, or too much bragging, or, um, well, groping. Of me. Fifteen minutes after meeting me. And look, I’m not perfect, and I don’t expect others to be either, but I’m also not desperate.

  1. I’d been friends with Mr. (QP) R for nearly a year before we got together (we commiserated about a lot of bad dates, actually). We got mutual crushes and confessed ‘em, and here we are now, eleven-odd months later. He’s great, for all the reasons I mentioned in my original letter and more. We’ve talked about our differences and he has encouraged me to continue to seek out the intellectual stimulation that I need. I agree with the posters who’ve said that it’s not necessary for one person to be *everything,* or healthy to have that expectation.

  1. HOWEVER: having grown very painfully away from the person I thought was my soulmate (okay, bring it on, cynics, but I was 23 when I married him) I am perhaps a bit paranoid about things that could be problematic in the future of *this* relationship. So I’m trying to locate them ahead of time, and communicate with Mr. (QP) R about them, and learn from people who have more experience than I do.

If that’s you, please let me know your thoughts, and thanks for not jumping to conclusions.

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by dk_brown

Really interesting letter. There may be some doubters but I believe you were the letter writter. What struck me about the letter was a sense of "settling". I think when that feeling is aired, the relationship is over because it is not fair to the other party - there will always be an imbalance if one things he/she has settled for the other. However, as you and others have pointed out, nobody can be everything. The key is trying to find someone (if that is important) who has the "important or essential qualities" for you. If someone has most but not all but feels just so right, perhaps a previously essential quality will become merely "important" and something that can be found with a friend or developed over time. If that is how you are with him, then the relationship sounds great. If, however, you will always think you are "settling" (my word; I don't think you used it but that was the sense I got), I think you should move on. In fairness to you and in fairness to him.

Good luck. DK

You already have your answer
by Sarvis

Assuming you have given this thing ample time and baggage-free space to unfold....

You know now what it is like to be in a relationship. You no longer have a young person fantasies about finding the perfect and complete soul mate. You know now that we enter a relationship with a certain equation of pluses and not-so-pluses that add up to that particular person and how they match you, more or less.

You should know by now that all of those pluses and minuses are overridden by a single feeling in your gut that "this is the one" -- or not. No is evident by the absence of Yes.

Aside from a normal amount of buyers remorse, doubt, and self-challenging that is natural, and important, you know in your heart if this is someone you can love and respect and put effort into for the long haul.

And if they are, you will find a way to fill in the blank spots some other way. And if they are the right person, they will support you as you find ways to fill in the blank spots, because they want you to be complete and do not expect to do it all themselves.

So, as they say about expensive purses and watches, at the end of the day, if you have to ask...

Re: You already have your answer
by As I See It

<< Mr. (QP) R is quite smart and can be very funny in a dry, quiet way that absolutely kills me. In addition to his many other attributes, he is also emotionally aware - one of those people who can walk into a room and immediately sense who's upset. >>

If he has these traits, then not sharing a few interests is no big deal. Intelligent people who are funny have the gift of quickly sizing up situations and not only being able to analyze, distill, and juxtapose psychological intricacies at lightning speed, but characterize them in a pity and entertaining manner. Minds that are able to see humor in everyday situations don't grow stale. Perhaps the intellectual discussions occasionally should consider how he perceives the world around him and you may attempt to understand his quirky logic (we all have quirky logic) and how it jives with your own. Intellectual discussions can be about anything in the abstract. A discussion about American Idol can be intellectual if you consider it from a cultural / sociological / psychological perspective.

Re: You already have your answer
by just_that_chick

Thanks to all of you for your responses. I don't necessarily think I'm "settling," it's more that I'm used to one kind of relationship and am hoping not to screw up another kind that works really well in other respects.

As I See It's post points up an opportunity for me to engage with my new love: finding the abstract sphere that surrounds whatever it is that he/I/we/society at large are engaged in. His mind is definitely not stale, it's just not engaged in the things I'm used to considering significant. If I can cultivate our common ground in observation, reflection, and humor, I think my "nagging doubt" might go to bed for good.

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by Rebecca W.

I was married for almost 20 years to a really great guy, who is still in my life, but we were missing the intellectual connection. It's hard to articulate. We also missed a certain emotional connection in my opinion. Maybe if we'd had the one, going without the other would have been okay. But my problem was that for whatever reason he just didn't understand me, and, just like you said, he would go with me to explore things, but he wouldn't be the one to come up with insights. I really identified with you there. And I did find those things in other people.

I want to say more but I have to be mindful of who might read this. I don't know what I'd advise you to do. Of course no one person can be perfect, no one can be everything, and who wants that anyway? But there are the essential, life/spirit connections you need to thrive, and only you know how important that particular factor is for you.

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by Epona

Forgive me - I'm a bit of a lurker here but I felt I had to respond because I have been in something of a similar situation.

I grew up with the Smithsonian in my backyard. Going to classical concerts, art galleries, reading Shakespeare for fun etc was just what you did in my house, and something I grew up loving. College was never not an option and both my parents have advanced degrees. So when I married, I married a man who had grown up in that kind of atmosphere - hell, we met in a college study group and debated Plato vs Aristotle until everyone was sick of us.

Ultimately though, it didn't work out at all, for although we had a similar grounding in "culture" per se, we lacked the ability to emotionally connect. (Don't ask me how we got married, I still don't know) I never felt safe or valued with him. Don't get me wrong, he was intelligent and educated and charming and handsome, but he had an uncanny way of making me feel small and stupid and ugly and wrong. The divorce, when it came, was a relief for both of us.

Enter Secret Asian Man. Younger than me, never been in college, very poor. I agonized for months over him - and did ask myself if he was "good enough" for me, given that our backgrounds and education levels were so different. He's never had a salaried job in his life - strictly hourly. I am a practicing attorney and a classical musician who still reads Shakespeare for fun. I thought we'd never have anything to talk about when the initial glow faded.

In fact, when my friends and parents said he was a loser and "no value added" and that I deserved better, I listened and dumped him. And walked around for the next 2-3 months feeling like I had just lost a chunk of myself. Thankfully, I had the humility to approach him again and he had the grace to forgive me. The scars are still there, but we are healing.

Now we have plenty to talk about. He wants to come to my concerts - loves to hear me talk about music or the law, loves the Smithsonian - he's just never had the chance to go to things like that. And I play computer games with him, or Guitar Hero (which is strangely challenging if you really know music) and have a blast. He cooks, he cleans and the cats love him. We have an almost unnerving way of following one another's thoughts and we are careful with one another's feelings, even in conflict - something I have never ever seen before in a man.

Differences aside, he and I resonate in harmony, if that makes sense to anyone but a musician. And that is enough for us. He is peaceful and safe and makes me feel like a queen (and a sex goddess) >:). He knows I am not perfect and he still adores me. My friends and family can go hang.

My point with this (long, sorry) post is that only you can decide what you can live with. Maybe he does have other qualities, or that ineffable something, like my S.A.M., that you don't want to be without. Hopefully, my story can help you clarify that. Alternatively, it will give the other Fraysters something to poke fun at, and that's always entertaining.

One more thing - my brother, also a veteran of a divorce and several broken engagements to boot, once told me that there is no bad reason to dump someone. Some reasons may make you feel shallow, or bad about yourself, but ultimately you are who you are and you have to respect what you want, or else you will be miserable.

Good luck

Really?
by schuylercat

I mean that: really? You are the Nagging LW?

I re-read my response, and found I gave sharp advice. I need to elucidate:

You weren't that clear.

What I said was "...you sound like you really don't want this guy." But...well...

I won't take it back, though. I LOVE middle of the road advice. You like him? Great! You don't? Great!

You seem to possess the intellectual horsepower to know what you want, but your letter seemed like a plaint, as if you were lacking the emotional horsepower to make the leap. Stop it. Sounds like you answered your own question anyway - what you say above makes it all sound like nothing more than...a nagging doubt! So you were right, weren't you?

All sarcasm aside: just go with it. We'll slap you around and give you snippy advice and make fun and such because...I dunno, maybe because this is the internet and that's what happens when a letter is too tightly wound. In the end, I have a sneaking suspicion you actually DO like this one. Yes? Meanwhile, it's Valentines Day. So...

Go on. Go! You know.

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by Clara

One more thing - my brother, also a veteran of a divorce and several broken engagements to boot, once told me that there is no bad reason to dump someone. Some reasons may make you feel shallow, or bad about yourself, but ultimately you are who you are and you have to respect what you want, or else you will be miserable.

That is beautiful advice.

LW, if you love this guy, truly deep down love him and have an internal commitment to him, please don't let a few differences stop you. But if you're trying to force yourself to love him because he seems so great on paper and are afraid to dump him because you think your reasons might seem shallow, please don't get trapped into staying with him out of guilt. Do what feels right in your heart (this is not advice I would give to someone at the beginning of a relationship or who hadn't thought things through, but you're at the point where lists of good qualities get thrown out and who you really are comes through). You may have mixed emotions, but deep down when you think about spending the rest of your life with him, you'll have a deep happiness or a deep revulsion.

Don't think, just answer.

DO YOU WANT TO MARRY THIS MAN?

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by baron763

Pit, pat..the minute, the hour, the day goes by... Are you there? Yes..I am here... Then all is well. Without you, the days are dry like sand and the sand like a desert where tears of lonelyness dry before the fall.

Be with me always, for you are like water to my parched soul, making me to bloom like memories of a garden, that once was and will never be. Moonlight shall cast our shadows, the torch of reason doused for the night. Our bodies touch, our breaths mingle until reason lights again dawns light.

Are you there? Yes.... I am here! Then all is well!

Light and love to you!

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by IncogNeato
It computes that you were 17 when you started going with your ex. Naturally, without too much experience in long-term relationships, things that are different from your learned norm would be intimidating. Sounds like he's probably a keeper, though. At worst, hopefully you two can remain decent friends if one of you decides it isn't a match. In that case, you might even play matchmaker for each other (though it sounds weird), since you'd both have a good idea what the other is looking for.
Re: You already have your answer
by IncogNeato

As I See It:

Minds that are able to see humor in everyday situations don't grow stale.

Reminds me of a guy I dated in college. He was a friend's brother, intelligent, and seemed nice enough. I dealt with his wanting me always to make every decision ("Which restaurant?" "Which movie?" "What time should I come by?" etc.) but our last date drove in the stake.

We went out to one of the local parking spots when we realized they were about to lock the gate - a fairly recent addition. He slammed it into gear and plowed into a ditch. There was more, but you get the picture.

As were were walking to the gate to flag down someone to call the ranger back to open it, call both our parents, and call a tow truck - this was before cell phones, I started to chuckle, thinking how this would have looked on a sit-com. He couldn't believe I could possibly find anything humorous in this situation. I then realized this was not the guy for me. His sister, by the way, saw how hysterically funny the whole thing was. She just couldn't tell him that.

Re: I’m the Nagging Doubt LW
by just_that_chick

To be honest, I don't think I want to get married again. All of the emotional pain that goes along with a breakup is compounded by the ass-pain of dealing with the legal/financial side of things.

As of today... after a great evening with Mr. (QP) R, it's pretty damn hard to imagine being without him. From my marriage, I know that intellectual stimulation is pretty cold comfort in the absence of affection and consideration.

Mr. R (yep, I think I'm going with a simpler nomenclature from here on out) is smart, stable, competent, patient, sweet, respectful, sexy, and cute as hell. In many of those respects he is FAR superior to my wasband, so my past relationship's features can't really serve as benchmarks.

I am happy and fortunate to have this person in my life. We may marry; we may not; we may split up down the road over this particular issue or over something neither of us can foresee. In the meantime, I'm going to revel in what I've got and make sure he knows he's valued.

two things
by its yggy
first, your letter is a lot different than this post. If this post more accurately describes the situation, I have to wonder why you evne wrote the other letter!

second, what your worried about reminds me of this concept I learned of in the book Programming the Universe. Lloyd talks about how it's impossible to know the outcome of a computer program until you run it and see what happens after it's finished. I think in the same way you're just stuck never knowing the future of a relationship. If you want to try, you're either going to drive yourself or your partner crazy. You have to free yourself from that if you ever want to be happy.
Re: two things
by just_that_chick

Well, I submitted the original letter to Dear Prudence almost three weeks ago (it takes them/her awhile to vet/answer/post them, I imagine). Cohabitation discussions with Mr. R the night before I wrote it got me thinking hard about what life with him long-term would be like, and I realized that this one difference was still causing me some anxiety.

Reading about other people's experiences here in the Fray has gone a long way to killing my worry. I hear: you're not nuts to want your brain to be tickled by your partner; you can find new ways of making that happen; and it's only as big a deal as you choose to make of it. The challenge to me is to work a little harder at finding the types of experiences that my ex used to bring to my doorstep, and to go as far into Mr. R's experiences as he's willing to take me.

You're right, it's not possible to know the future - but right now the present is looking pretty sweet. That's really all there is. It's amazing how just writing this stuff down helped.

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