Man, I feel like neither Prudie nor anybody in the Fray realizes what this problem is like from the point of view of somebody for whom intellectual understanding is the biggest priority in finding a soulmate. I've been in this situation before. When I met one guy, we had a few great long ranting intellectual conversations, and then they stopped. All our conversations turned into conversations about our relationship, which seemed like an awfully small world to me. I told him I needed the intellectual stimulation of the conversations we'd had at the beginning...he said he thought that as long as we COULD have those conversations if a topic came up, it wasn't actually necessary to have them at given intervals per se. I saw his point, but it was a big difference for us. With all the time I was spending with him, I felt starved if I couldn't get the kind of thought-fuel I needed. I guess that was one of the reasons it didn't work out.

Actually that guy was possessive, too, I guess, but later on I dated a guy who was sweet in every way, and yet it crept up on me that he couldn't really get some of the wild stuff that came out of my head. I'm glad we had to break up because of distance, because it would have been hard to break up with him, but it would have had to happen sometime--we just weren't on the same page.

The way the LW describes herself, I feel like she is like me in being the kind of person that REALLY feels this need. She doesn't need to be made fun of or called a princess for this. This is REALLY important to those of whose first love is thinking. And it seems to me very dangerous advice to say she should go elsewhere for the intellectual stimulation. She may find someone that deeply draws her in that way, and have to deal with the temptation to start an affair. Actually I'd say there is a STRONG chance this would happen at some point were they to stay together and get married. It might not have happened this year, but really, it's almost sure to happen sometime.

Also! Prudie, intellectual and intelligent are NOT the same thing!!!!!! This was the biggest thing that made me feel like Prudie doesn't get the problem at all. Intelligent is high IQ, being able to memorize stuff, get good grades, whatever. Of course it can be used more loosely, but it does NOT mean the same thing as intellectual--a person who loves thinking for thinking's sake, and who is naturally full of her own ideas and perspectives on things, and naturally analytical.

something like that, off the top of my head. other people's ideas on what "intellectual" means?

oh my god! more sarcastic stuff has appeared since i started writing my letter.

If you are not the kind of person who cares about hanging out with people who have interesting insights in museums, then clearly you are not like the letter writer and don't understand what she's thinking. Why do you have to make fun of her?

lotuspetal7:

When I met one guy, we had a few great long ranting intellectual conversations, and then they stopped.

Didn't your mother ever tell you that men will do/say whatever it takes to get in your panties?

Do the American thing~ Stalk/date/marry Mensa candidates and bang the gardner.

nope, i was being all careful at that time, and he wasn't in my panties when things changed. those few conversations just happened because a lot was going on in his life to give him some new thoughts. but it was quickly over. he even actually said out loud that he only changes his ideas about once every two years, which was too quantified for me.

The LW's relationship is doomed. She will always feel like she is "settling". Once that idea is in someone's head, the other partner is forever given second-class status until someone with all the same qualities AND the missing quality comes along.

I have nothing wrong with someone saying they want someone more intellectual. Just like wanting someone of the same faith is important to some. Or the same race. Or tall. Or short. Other folks don't have such rigid rules for dating/mating/partnering. No biggie. Everyone is different. However, out of respect to the LW's partner, she should tell him of his "flaw" for her and then leave.

lotuspetal7:

nope, i was being all careful at that time, and he wasn't in my panties when things changed.

a) I'd like to meet this guy and get some insight on this changing of ideas every two years.

b) Perhaps the loosening of the chastity belt would have helped the stimulation of highly intellectual conversation.

I understand your point. You have a need that you want your partner to fill and it is reasonable to want to hold out until you get that. However, if you are going to do that you better be genuinely content with the idea that you may spend your entire life without a partner.

I do take issue with your thought that having other friends to fill this gap would automatically lead to an affair. The super easy way around that would be to have a friend of the same sex. The more mature attitude would be that an adult can handle a close relationship with another person without it turning into an affair.

I'm always thinking too, Lotus. Sometimes i keep thinking and thinking and thinking until i think my head's gonna explode or something. Like they say Britney Spears is crazy coz she doesn't wear panties but if that's the case they should be strip-searching everyone in L.A. because i know like tons and tons of girls who don't wear panties and nobody ever says they're crazy.

OIFVet:

a) I'd like to meet this guy and get some insight on this changing of ideas every two years.

haha, he loved having these really fixed ideas about random things. i think it made him feel more confident. but the black-and-white thinking was too much like my dad's. that was part of why it didn't work too.

OIFVet:

b) Perhaps the loosening of the chastity belt would have helped the stimulation of highly intellectual conversation.

haha, nope, i don't think so! in fact i was naked around him, but the first time that happened, he got upset and told me to put my clothes back on because I was going too fast. (again, WAY too much like my dad.) and no, he was definitely not gay. i think the word "slut" was rolling around in his head. he also got mad about my making occasional (innocent and in front of his face) physical contact with other guy friends, and told me people were making slut-related comments about me so that I would stop.

yeah, there were all kinds of reasons that one didn't work out, actually. the other guy, though, he was sweet, so it really was only the lack of intellectual understanding.

SusanM:

a) I understand your point. You have a need that you want your partner to fill and it is reasonable to want to hold out until you get that. However, if you are going to do that you better be genuinely content with the idea that you may spend your entire life without a partner.

b) I do take issue with your thought that having other friends to fill this gap would automatically lead to an affair. The super easy way around that would be to have a friend of the same sex. The more mature attitude would be that an adult can handle a close relationship with another person without it turning into an affair.

a) i don't think so, there are plenty of people like the LW, just not most people. it's not something awfully picky she's asking, I think, because I know the feeling. You just want someone with their own ideas about stuff.

b) I did not say it would automatically lead to an affair. I said she would have to deal with the temptation to start an affair. Even if you don't give in, that's a very painful and tragic situation.

Of course it would be supereasy to seek out an intellectual friend of the same sex. She should definitely do it, BUT...you know how life is! Somebody will come along at some point...

And sure, having a close relationship with another male without it turning into an affair WOULD be a more mature way to handle it...and for that matter I'm a big fan of open relationships and think it would the most mature thing of all for people to ditch their jealousy when their partner meets an interesting person... But people usually aren't that mature, are they? I mean really.

You just haven't found the right person lotuspetal. Your Mr. Right might (or might not) fill that particular need with you. When you meet someone that is truely right you will be surprised to find out what doesn't seem as necessary. It is possible to have that particular need filled by someone else within your circle.

My husband is not intellectual, he is very intelligent but I agree that it's not the same thing. When I want an intellectual conversation I call my dad or if I want a political debate I call one of my many friends. There is so much more to the conversations with my husband that I don't miss the rest. Okay, maybe I do sometimes but not enough that it detracts from what an absolutely great husband he is. And over the years he is learning that debating is not arguing and intellectual does not always mean boring.

I'm not saying that you should "settle" if that's what you feel it is. Just keep an open mind and give it a chance instead of shutting the door the first time his conversation is lacking. My hubby was SO not my type but I figured "my type" hasn't gotten me very far so why not. (It's fitting on valentine's day but . . .) It still shocks me how much deeper my love for him is from when we even got married.

thanks for the encouragement danam, I think you are right. of course it's true that I shouldn't be dumping people the first time their conversation is lacking. fortunately, the situation has never developed like that...people are usually interesting to me when I initially meet them (they're bound to have something unique about them), but as time goes on and we talk and talk some more, either he grows more or less interesting to me. i think this is what's happened to the LW--he was so great, but he's getting less interesting as time goes on.

Sounds like a great marriage. We cannot get "everything" from our spouses, in my view. It may be that I need a certain interaction from my guy friends that my wife, as a woman, cannot give me. It could be that she needs to discuss music in a way that I cannot (or I painting in a way that she cannot). It adds to the health of the relationship to realize that the relationship is not threatened when you seek some stimulation outside of it. However, I do think that the tone of the original letter was that the LW would be "settling" by staying with this guy. Once that attitude sets in, the relationship is almost certainly unhealthy and an insult to the other person. You can't un-ring that bell (at least in my observation of other couples who have had the ring of the "s" word).

The LW had already met & married one guy who had this trait, but that didn't work out. Next she interviewed several who seemed to, but apparently they were all wankers of some stripe or another.

Maybe this trait is necessary for her, in which case she needs to move on. Or maybe it isn't, and she can let it go and still be happy. Only she knows, and only she can make the decision.

I'm sure she can handle some name-calling from Fray folk. Being intellectual is no crime, but whining about Mr. Perfect-except-for-this-one-li­ttle-thing is.

But just because there are plenty of people like the LW, it doesn't mean that they will be suitable life partners for her. You seem very idealistic but really, every time you pass up somebody because they are not perfect, you are implicitly deciding that you would rather be alone than with somebody not perfect. That is ok, really. But if you want to be a happy well adjusted person you should face that fact head on and make your decision consciously. If you duck your head and say 'oh but Mr Perfect will definitely be by any minute!' and then act upon that, well you are pretty much lying to yourself because you have no way of knowing that to be true.

As for her having to deal with temptation, again that is a pretty idealistic way of looking at things. Do you really think Mr. Perfect will perfectly satisfy you for every minute for the rest of your life so that you will never ever be tempted? Temptation is a fact of life. There will be days that you will be pissed off and dissatisfied with even Mr. Perfect. There will be people who just have such a 'zing' for you that your head will turn no matter how perfect Mr. Perfect is.

You seem to think Mr. Perfect will be the answer to everything. I'm just suggesting that nobody will ever be that perfect and one should make their decisions accordingly.