This election is not a referendum on the Clinton Presidency. Except for BC's embarrassing lack of self control and personal integrity (he lied to all of us about you-know-who), he did a fine job.

But this election isn't about him and Obama's surge isn't about him either. Maybe we will never get a class of public officials that spends time trying govern instead of trying to either score political victories or fend off political attacks from the other side.

It may never happen, but I am voting for hope.

And if HRC and her supporters want people to face harsh reality they should start by facing the fact that at this moment, Senator Clinton is losing.

all these wins, Obama is still NOT yet caught up with Hillary on delegates. The race is FAR, FAR from over and it is gradually edging into those states known to be heavily for Hillary Clinton.

Tomorrow is another day.

The election IS a referendum on the Clintons in general because Obama supporters have generally made it so. Do you even bother to read a wide sampling of the typical pro-Obama posts on these fray boards?

They are generally filled with vile examples of hatred aimed at Hillary personally or the Clintons in general AND they sound almost word for word as if they were penned by Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity.

Perhaps you should stop for a moment, take a deep breath, and look around at your fellow Obama supporters. MANY of them are republicans who left the GOP temporarily because they don't want to be associated with a loser like Bush anymore. BUT they are still Gopers and still drink the GOP anti-Clinton, hate-based, kool-aide by the gallons full.

doing that as long as you continue to be stupidly self-indulgent here.

You are going to let the outright enemies of the Democrat Party dictate the directions, actions, and policies of the party and therefore the direction of the nation itself because you are too squeemish to fight for what is right and just and ethical?

More to the point are you such a fantasist that you actually think that the rightwing hate machinery is going to keep giving Obama a free pass? You actually think that the mass media is going to indefinitely continue to be in love with Obama and NEVER start passing along GOP lies and distortions as either unexamined gossip or outright facts? You think that the GOPs and mass media's blatantly unfair treatment of the Clintons and their earlier similar treatment of Jimmy Carter, were isolated, one-off affairs?

Oh no! The hatered and the lies and the distortions are going to be heaped upon Obama's head by the buckets full when the time is right, and as far as the GOP is concerned that will be after Obama has supplanted Hillary as the nominee. THis is because they are frightened of the Clintons but they know how to handle Hope Merchants like Obama; oh yes, indeedy, they do!

So wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first, because the GOP slime machine is just waiting for the best moment to kick into high gear and when they do people will be turning away from Obama in droves. By then, of course, it will all be too late and you and I will be stuck with Jimmy Carter-Part Two [Obama] in the White House AS a first term lame duck president for the next four years.

Okay, now it's your turn again. Say something else childishly stupid.

God I am so sick of the self indulgent tripe coming from Clinton supporters like yourself..... Enemies of the party? Easy there Stalin........

I used to be a Republican until I learned that everything they had been telling me was an outright lie.....do you not want my vote? Shall I tell all the rest of the reformed rebublicans that the Democratic party is too good for us, and that our votes shouldnt really count.

Obama's message of hope and change in the party is no less abstract than Hillary's so called 35 years of public service experience.

You are exatly the type of Democrat that is going to keep the party from being successful. You are arrogant, and self assured for no reason. Your argument that somehow the Right Wing machinery will chew up someone like Obama is grounded in no fact, no reason........

emerge. Of course you hate Hillary because as a former GOPer you have supped sooooo deeply of the propaganda where she is concerned that your hatred of her is now fixed on a genetic level.

That's cool.

As for the rest of your rant; yeah, yeah, yeah, REFORMED republicans have been chanting for years now that the Democrat Party ought just to roll over and present it's belly to the GOP rather than grow a backbone and fight the sum bags to the bitter end.

Pssst! look around at the ruin that seven years of republican party rule has done to this nation of ours. How do you think it was possible for that to happen before our very eyes? It's because 'go along to get along' types like YOU let it happen, because you are too spineless to howl at the world over the outrages happening before your very eyes.

What was it, hmmmm? Too busy chasing after the all mighty dollar to bother? Perhaps you just had other VITAL activities that supplanted civic duties and responsibilities where the health of your nation was concerned. Perhaps you are one of those tea-sipping pinky-finger extenders who shudder--shudders, mind you--at the notion of going against the flow, to stand up for what it right and proper and just.

Oh yes, let's just listen some more to the wisdom of YOUR type of citizen. Perhaps the next lunatic or cynic to occupy the White House and dominate the branches of government can really ream us royally thanks to people like you.

Ahem, now it's your turn again. Isn't this loads of fun?

I appreciate your rabid defense of your position. Do not turn the commentary of others into mine and please try to maintain a civil tone to your passion. People will read what you say and think that you come off on the screen like Ann Coulter after a few too many wine coolers. Have a great day.

Wow.....you are really smart....look how you showed me......I especially love the way you told me that I hated Hillary.....Sounds almost like someone assuming you hate Obama.

I will work for Hillary if she gets the nod, and I respect your position that Hillary is the best candidate to win against McCain, even if you are too arrogant and lack the common decency to respect mine.

You are worse than Ann Coulter, she is too dumb to know any better, while you display some intelligence.

I wasnt talking to you CMAC. I like your original post. I am taking issue with another person in here and the way they are making their argument.

Demcon:

all these wins, Obama is still NOT yet caught up with Hillary on delegates.

Guess again.

<link>

C. Mac:

This election is not a referendum on the Clinton Presidency.

You're right. It's a referundum on the Bush presidency.

Demcon:

all these wins, Obama is still NOT yet caught up with Hillary on delegates.

Guess again.

<link>

Isn't it funny that the very hand wringers who were so afraid of irritating a republican sat back and did nothing as republicans cheerfully pushed this nation into the gutters beginning in 2000.

I say to people like that and to people like you, go to hell.

But I mean that in a NICE way, obviously. My word I wouldn't want to ruffle any features, upset an apple cart. Gosh, everything is just wine and roses, isn't it?

@Greatbear452

What do you think you are doing? Challenging Demcon with facts? Now that's a fool's errand.