WOW. This posting is obviously about me and a fellow manager (you know the one who is "just a feminist")

At our workplace when we hire people, we let them know the workplace policies and procedures (meaning it is not made up arbitrarily it was in place before we even started working here, we, including the MALE mangagers, just enforce the policies) we let folks know the expectations after the 2nd interview....that we work in a "progressive" workplace and we tolerate no racism, sexism, homophobia, we don't talk about sex, drugs, alcohol, (someone could be religious or in recovery) and we also call grown men, men (not boys) and grown women, women (not girls, chicks, ladies ect.) Everyone is well aware of the expectations up front. Which by the way this "ultra feminist vegan dyke" didn't make up herself.

No one is infallible. Outside of my job I too, call my friends girls and I have been known to refer to myself as a lady on occassion. But in the place where we work this is not how we talk. I did not make up these rules. The men that work here also enforce them so why target the only women?

When someone is new and they say "girl" or "lady" we gently remind them that they probably mean woman. In no case ever would someone have their relationship called "immoral or inappropriate" and we would never call anyone a pedophile! As a surivor of sexual assault, I take rape and childhood sexual abuse VERY seriously and calling someone a pedophile to make a point is definatly not feminist.

The person who wrote into this advice column GROSSLY misrepresented the actual facts. I am sure this person was told not to call women girls at work. I am very sure they were asked to not refer to a member as a "lady".

THAT SAID, I think it is really interesting that the person making this complaint brought me up at all because I was not the person involved in "correcting" them about saying girl or lady. WHY bring me up at all? I can only assume they included me because of my sexuality and that it would make there question more interesting...and many of the people who commented on this question singled out the "Dyke" and even the "feminist" response assumed that I was "hurt" and was responding based on nit-picking hetero-sexism. But it wasn't me who talked to this person about his language. As a matter of fact the person who did correct him did not correct him for referring to his "girlfriend" but for referring to a "girl". I call my partner my girlfriend, and other women in the office refer to their boyfriends. Yes I am a feminist, I am vegan, I dunno where they heard the anarchist thing but whatever. Everyone is very familiar with the "man-hating" dyke stereotype and I read time and time again the assumptions people commenting made about me being the person who "reprimanded" this individual. HOW BORING. wow.

You know what else? Prudence assumed that we were "Older"(as if a boss who is a woman must be old and vengeful) and picking on a younger man in the office. This is not true. Both female managers are in their mid-20s just like the complaintant. Also we pay 3 dollars and 85 cents above minimum wage. I would encourage anyone with complaints about me or my fellow female manager to go talk to the 2 male managers or even my boss because while Prudence can give you advice based on your skewed facts and misrepresentation, she can't help you with what you feel is an unfair workplace.

what are the odds, that both you & the letter writer work at the same place & read dear Prudie?

This could be about you, or it could not, unless you really did call him a pediphile.

I'm curious, why do you think this letter was obviously about you? Especially since the facts don't line up with what you know.

Something I've always wanted to ask a lesbian-vegan.

If you are against eating meat, do you not 69?

There are several reasons I think this is about me.

1. there is a person in my office who was recently corrected for both calling a woman a girl and calling a member a lady. Although he was not corrected by me

2. I am one of two female managers working for an environmental group that has a policy of not calling women girls or members of the environmental group lady.

3. I am a vegan lesbian feminist who is one of 2 female managers at an environmental group that calls members what are the odds? PLUS I don't read Slate, I don't even have a computer someone I know forwarded this to me b/c she thought it was about my job!

I never would call someone a pedophile and I sincerely doubt anyone else would either!!!

lezbfriends: WOW. This posting is obviously about me and a fellow manager (you know the one who is "just a feminist") The person who wrote into this advice column GROSSLY misrepresented the actual facts. I am sure this person was told not to call women girls at work. I am very sure they were asked to not refer to a member as a "lady".

You know what else? Prudence assumed that we were "Older"(as if a boss who is a woman must be old and vengeful) and picking on a younger man in the office. This is not true. Both female managers are in their mid-20s just like the complaintant. Also we pay 3 dollars and 85 cents above minimum wage.

I would encourage anyone with complaints about me or my fellow female manager to go talk to the 2 male managers or even my boss because while Prudence can give you advice based on your skewed facts and misrepresentation, she can't help you with what you feel is an unfair workplace.

They are only GROSSLY misinterpreted if the LW actually is a staff member of your organization.

Prudie assumed something? Like you are assuming you are the topic of this letter? Both assumptions may be true. Neither may be true. But both Prudie and you made assumptions.

The facts are only skewed and representations wrong if your assumptions are accurate.

And even if it was about you, why are you so defensive if, as you say, you did nothing? For that matter, how do you even know this is about your office? Have you been peering through his hard drive, looking for a way to find fault?

Someone has been treating this man badly. I have no doubt at all that he has been singled out, if not by you, then by someone else that you work with. People who are comfortable and happy in their situations do not take the time out to write to an advice columnist to ask for help.

No one in a work situation has the right to attack someone based on the language or descriptors that they use unless they are in some way obscene. Using the word "girl" is not obscene, no matter how much you and your fellow managers wish that is was. Merely being a heterosexual male is not a crime.

Using "feminism" as an excuse for this abuse is sad. The movement was about inclusion, not abuse. Perhaps you aren't old enough to remember that part of it. I am angered and humiliated that the rights I, my friends and colleagues, and my mother's generation fought for are being used to harm anyone.

All we wanted was to be treated like equals. It was never about dragging men down, it was about being able to do the jobs that they could and being accepted for our competency, not derided for our sex. By treating this man as an inferior and "educating" him in the way that your group has been doing, you shame me and you shame all of the women that came before us. We never intended this. I, for one, loathe your brand of feminism, linked as it is to nastiness and ego and implemented through gratuitous cruelty.

If this man is doing the job you hired him to do, then you have no valid reason to complain about him. He is a human being doing a job. The fact that he isn't female is meaningless. If he is incompetent, fire him. Sexual harassment is not just about propositioning the unwilling. It can and has been prosecuted for such things as hanging a girlie calendar in a mechanic's shop. This is no different.

By taking him to task, whoever spoke to this young man is creating a hostile work environment. If the policies and procedures of this office condone this behavior, then there is something wrong with the policies and procedures. Period. What is being done to him is actionable and I would encourage him to take action, hire a lawyer and fight the sexism that is clearly present in this workplace.

I would also advise you and your colleagues not only to stop this behavior, but to stop referring to yourselves as "feminists". You insult the rest of us by self-identifying that way.

Your company sounds like a bargain to work for. 8.85 per hour and you have to watch everything you say and change your whole manner of speaking? I wouldn't put up with such nonsense earning a six figure salary!

The claim that something didn't happen because "no one would ever do that" is pretty weak. I'm sure that it's not a good defense against sexual harrassment accusations.

Either the reprimand took place as the letter writer describes, in which case it was out of line, or else the writer made it up, which is even more out of line.

You're right, though, that Prudie and most posters (generally following her lead) have made huge assumptions about the age, race, sex, and other details of the writer and the bosses.

BTW, what the hell kind of workplace comes up with a speech code like that? What a complete waste of time and resources.

So the issue is that you are in an office that has two female bosses. Actually, I have two female bosses too. It just isn't all that uncommon.

The second point is that you work in an office where somebody was recently corrected for calling somebody a girl and a lady. Hmmm, again if it was a feminist office, I wonder if it is all that uncommon? The pedophile, that was the uncommon remark, and it doesn't match you.

As for the vegan lesbian feminist (hmmm, not dyke? that was the word use in the letter - another contradiction). Well, I'm not surprised to find that environmentalist groups draw vegans any more than I'm surprised that my substance abuse field draws teetotalers. Sort of seems like it fits. Then we have the lesbian feminist combination. Again, seems like a pretty good fit. So, what are the odds? Probably not all that bad when you consider the massive readership this place has.

Take a couple deep breaths and whatever you do don't go yell at the suspect. I think you are over reacting here and assuming things that may have no basis in reality.

lezbfriends:

At our workplace when we hire people, we let them know the workplace policies and procedures (meaning it is not made up arbitrarily it was in place before we even started working here, we, including the MALE mangagers, just enforce the policies) we let folks know the expectations after the 2nd interview....that we work in a "progressive" workplace and we tolerate no racism, sexism, homophobia, we don't talk about sex, drugs, alcohol, (someone could be religious or in recovery) and we also call grown men, men (not boys) and grown women, women (not girls, chicks, ladies ect.) Everyone is well aware of the expectations up front.

We are the collective

Resistance is futile

You will be assimilated!

Thank you Elle!

Boss lady- even though you didn't come up with the rules- you are actively enforcing them. So you are part of the problem. You could have easily just told the young man- hey, be careful using those words- I don't mind but so-and-so is uptight about this sort of thing- remember to watch your tongue when you are around so-and-so. That way you are helping the young man without actually enforcing this ridiculous rule.

Elle Blue is right- $8.** per hour is far too sh*tty a pay rate for any employee to put up with this sort of humiliation.

It would be statistically unlikely for you to be the person the LW is talking about. In any case, if your job has a rule about using the words "girl" or "lady", it's stupid. By enforcing it, you are perpetuating the problem, just like all the people who let the status quo work against gay men and women.

I was employed as an engineer for four years. During that time, I managed 10 technicians. My company had a policy that all technicians take coffee breaks at 9 am, 3 pm with a half hour for lunch. Well, as a manager I decided this in fact hurt productivity. So I told my direct reports that they did not have to follow the rule, and if they got in trouble that the person was to discuss the matter with me. Since I increased the productivity of my reports by 43% in the course of a year, no one ever bothered.

What I'm trying to say is that as the boss it is your job to protect the people who report to you from idiocy of those whom you report to.

I know I am considered 'old school', being an early boomer, growing up watching "Leave It To Beaver" (entirely different connotation than the orginal poster would take), and all that.

But I was raised by my sainted mother to believe being a lady was a good thing. I was taught to always treat a woman like a lady, unless she proved herself otherwise. Just when did being a lady, which means having class, manners, being polite and a good person, become a perjorative term? I always thought being a lady was a good thing.

Does that mean I should now take offense if a woman calls me a gentleman?