It entertains me that inviting a pregnant woman to a bar is "anti-pregnant" but inviting someone to a baby shower, or inviting someone to see the new baby, where the entire activity is built around the pregnancy, would never be seen as "anti-non-pregnant."

I love that my friends have gotten married and had babies, but any interaction with them is now entirely on their terms, at a time they decide. I am happy to share in their joy, but our friendships have significantly shifted towards catering to their needs and priorities. I accept this as the way life goes, but if anyone ever told me I was being rude by inviting them to one of *my* activities, one that the pregnant friend has historically enjoyed, I'd be pretty pissed. A polite "no thanks" is sufficient.

I don't know enough about the process of the hormones to have an educated position, but this was a weeks-long interaction, so if hormones were the cause, I have a hard time believing that at some point the pregnant woman did not have moments of clarity on the issue and realize she was being silly.

Going to the bar is a very non-important event, that in no way marks some major life event or change.

You do not have to be pregnant to go to a baby shower, but you really should not be pregnant to go drinking with your friends at a bar.

One is important, commemorative. The other is selfish, exclusive.

"Anti-non-pregnant"? If you go to someone's wedding is that an anti-non-married event? Is a funeral an anti-non-dead event.

Get over yourself. Being pregnant is more important that being drunk.

It's funny, but a lot of friends of mine that have kids were perfectly happy to go to a pub while they were pregnant. If you seriously believe that all socialization with the "non-pregnant" means getting pissed and throwing up on the furniture, then I would submit that you are the one that needs to get over yourself.

And by the way, if you seriously think (and your posts before this have made it pretty clear that you do) that pregnant women should stay away from their childless friends, then you should find yourself either a good psychiatrist or a cave to live in, whichever's cheaper.

One friend in particular declared in no uncertain terms that she was not giving up all grown-up entertainment for the next 18 years of her life just because the PC crowd (Like you, Seeker?) demand that the umbilical never be cut.

You seem to have a certain fetish for baby-worship, which most of the women I know have no interest in. They understand that babies are babies and adults are adults and both have needs that cannot be met by the other. The ladies I know do not spend hours going on about the joy of the poopy diaper, and they have better things to do with their time than commiserate over chapped nipples or the "right" bib choice.

They are adults, with adult lives. They work, they play, they love their kids and their husbands and they try to keep things in balance. They have friends, go to dinner, go on holidays and do everything that adults do all the time. You know, like normal people. So far, I don't think they're raising any axe murderers.

Most of the women I know would be miserable not doing these things, and miserable parents are not doing their kids any favors.As for baby showers, I've gone to a lot of them. They can be fun or nasty, depending on who's doing the organizing.

Thankfully, I'm of an age now when most of my friends are done having kids. I do remember one incident, though. One of the guests at a shower said that I had no business even accepting the invitation because I didn't plan to have children. I asked if that meant I should take back the gift. She looked shocked and said no. I guess that the vintage silver cup and baby spoon were more welcome than I was.

No, she asked her to a bar.

You go to a bar to drink alcohol.

Even non-pregnant people avoid the bar scene because of this fact.

Hey, twit. A pub is a bar. Most people that go to bars do not end up getting plastered. Many, many bars have excellent food and good company, and they are non-smoking throughout most of North America. If, in your universe, the only reason to go to a bar is to get drunk, then you've been socializing with a tacky little crowd for most of your life. It's funny how you seem to treat pregnant women as if they weren't really human any more. You belittle them and seem to think that they should act and be treated like incompetents. In fact, your attitude is insulting to pregnant women everywhere. I'm sorry that your life has been so constricted and limited. Perhaps if you had a little more life experience, you wouldn't be so judgmental.

Seeker:

You do not have to be pregnant to go to a baby shower, but you really should not be pregnant to go drinking with your friends at a bar.

One is important, commemorative. The other is selfish, exclusive.

I disagree. Baby showers are selfish because they are a demand for presents.

You do not need to drink at a bar, there's no drinking requirement. You'd actually be surprised how many people at a bar aren't drinking, but simply hanging out with their friends. There is nothing wrong with a pregnant woman hanging out in a bar if she chooses.

seriously, who told you that the only reason to go to a bar was to drink alcohol? do you think all bars are like spring break in cancun?

many people go to bars simply to socialize. in fact, unless you live in a big city, you're going to need a designated driver, so rest assured there are usually plenty of people at a bar drinking soda and hanging out with their friends.

I really agree with you Messy- I'm pregnant for the first time, and I'm starting to see people with Seeker's attitude coming out of the woodwork. Usually, it's those types who come up with the crazy advice, always delivered in a stern lecture or a near hysterical plea. (I've been told going back to work will tun my kid into a delinquent and that working mothers are the root of all that's wrong with the US, and that I absolutely must repaint the entire interior of my house because it's the only way to sterilize it for the baby.) I've seen the attitude of the LW in some acquaintences, and the last few baby showers were a little boring on account of it. When you get a bunch of moms/expectant moms together to celebrate a friend's baby, it's easy for them to just talk about the kids. I was the only non-pregnant, non-mom there. But, as long as the conversation at other parties and get togethers was still broader in scope and my friends were still as friendly as ever, I didn't mind the baby shower focus.

No you go to a bar to talk to your friends. You often go to a bar to eat dinner or have a snack. Most people post-college-age don't go to bars to get plastered. Most adult bars serve food, or at least appetizers. I hardly think it's inappropriate for a pregnant woman and her friend to grab some appetizers at a bar and chat while the non-preggers girl has a beer or a glass of wine. When one of my friends was pregnant we used to meet at a bar freqently, because we were both out-of-town sports fans who wanted to watch our team on the satellite.

When you invite a friend to a bar, you have a registry demanding presents. When you invite a friend to a shower, you do. Now which one is selfish again Seeker?

Also, the last baby shower I went to had beer and wine served for the guests (and the father).

heh, given her ideas about pregnancy and motherhood, I think it's extremely unlikely that seeker is a sports fan.

I agree though, we often go to a bar to watch games when we can't at home.

Oops. I meant to say when you invite a friend to meet you at a bar, you DON'T have a registry demanding presents. Silly me. Well I'm sure you all got the point.

I believe Seeker has left the building! And yes, she probably does think all bars are like Cancun at spring break, complete with the soap suds on the dance floor, roofies and all! I think our friend Seeker has had a limited life experience and has been watching too much CSI Miami and MTV's spring break reality shows.

Women don't have to forgo all adult entertainment and reduce themselves to Barney and Dora the Explorer DVDs to be a good mommy and if you do, your own kids will find you annoying!

that's not necessarily true. personally, i hate bar bars. like college bar type places. i don't drink much. i'm a lightweight, and i hate the feeling of being drunk. i do, however, like a nice martini with dinner on occassion, and i'll hang out at a bar after a good late movie and discuss with friends until we get kicked out. i just don't do the "lets get plastered and smell like cigarettes when we go home to vomit all night!" scene. i have a friend who does enjoy that scene, and she's constantly inviting me to join her, even though she is well aware of my preferences. i invite her to movies and dinner, and she turns me down as well. but there's no animosity at all, maybe a little annoyance, and a whole lot of distance that wasn't there before, but that's what happens when people change and grow away from each other. while i get where preggers was coming from, i don't think she needed to take it so personally.

ElleBlue:

Women don't have to forgo all adult entertainment and reduce themselves to Barney and Dora the Explorer DVDs to be a good mommy and if you do, your own kids will find you annoying!

One of the Slate writers sometime back wrote an article about how he is a music critic, but has to listen to his preschool daughter's TWO children's CDs over and over, and was complaining about the tediousness of those CDs. The Fray pretty much said, (A) Buy better children's music, (B) Buy MORE children's music, and (C) Teach the child to appreciate music which is designed for more mature audiences, while still being appropriate for a child.

Many parents find parenthood limiting, because they put too few expectations upon what their kids are capable of handling, and too low an expectation on what they are able to accomplish beyond parenthood once they have a kid. Kids enjoy music with complexity and books and movies with a plot as much as adults do. The plot just has to be something they are capable of comprehending. And the parent needs to recognize that what the kids can't understand today, they may well be able to in a week or a month or a year.