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logical fallacies & more
by jvanke

First, you've got Obama in guilt by association with his church. Why don't you bring in the whole denomination ( ucc.org )? Selective association on your part?

Why is the product of a mixed marriage called "black," Hitchens asks.... Well, if we have to call him something based on his ancestral looks, feel free to nominate a substitute. But let's avoid the complexity of apartheid and Nazi legal racial distinctions.

And about that "sickly canonization of Martin Luther King Jr." Despite Hitchens' obsession with religion lately, it's not all about religion. How about, because MLK made a massive, nationwide protest movement largely peaceful rather than violent, as it may well have become.

Why does the media go on about Obama's race? You all have much more air time and column inches than material to fill them.

But why race? Come visit red-state America and discover ongoing prejudices. Or just read that U. Chicago study that demonstrated that Af-Am sounding names on resumes got fewer calls for interviews than Anglo-sounding names with identical resumes.

Re: logical fallacies & more
by ravenshroud
Great post. Thank you.
Obama and 'black'
by jazzguitarman

You bring up a lot of interesting points but I would like to just focus on one; Obama and his so called 'race' and your point about red-state America and their ongoing prejudices.

Now in NO WAY am I defending these ongoing prejudices but I hope we can also be non "PC" about them.

Say Obama was like the Williiam sisters (those great tennis players); Both parents are 'black', born and raised in South Central LA, had some gang ties (yes, the girls family did, since it is almost impossible to live in this area and not have them and their half-sister was killed by a gang type shooting)

If this was the case with Obama than I could see how the term 'black' could be used by those opposed to Obama to influence 'red-neck' voters. i.e. you want one of 'those blacks' as President?

AGAIN, this is bogus and racist but politics being dirty, it could happen.

BUT Obama is clearly NOT one of 'those blacks'. To me this multi-cultural background is one of his MAJOR strenghts. So I feel the media is doing Obama a disservice by using stressing the term 'black' instead of his multi-cultural background.

If this media is Fox network I would assume they do it to scare people away for 'those blacks'. If the media is what some call the liberal media, then I assume they are using the term 'black' as a type of black pride type of concept (i.e. liberal media has no negative agenda), but I still feel they are not giving Obama full credit for his entire background.

I would really love it if the media used terms like multi-cultural people like Tiger, Obama and myself (I'm just like these two, but more like Tiger).

Re: Obama and 'black'
by caliman73

It would be great if people would use more precise descriptors and if ethnic identity was not an issue. It would be the sign of a truly advanced society. We are not that. I was born here (United States), to legally naturalized parents, and speak better English than many of my white peers yet I am not American. I am Mexican or Mexican-American, Hispanic, or whatever term the dominant society wants to use to associate me as "other than".

That is the issue I take with the article. Aside from Hitchen's almost predictable attack on religion, is that he wants a color blind world. Me too!! Tell that to the nice white folk who cross the street when they see me coming. Color blind only works if everybody agrees to play fair.

Re: Obama and 'black'
by jazzguitarman

I agree with you that a color blind society is more of a 'would be nice' concept than something that will ever be the norm in society, but this shouldn't be the case for more precise descriptions.

One question if you don't mind; Would your parents be OK if you told them you wanted to be know just as an American instead of a Hypen-American?

I just wonder because often I see that younger people no longer find these hypen-american labels useful but their parents are hurt (sad) if their children don't use them.

Re: Obama and 'black'
by caliman73

My parents would actually not mind as much as I would. The way I define myself is how I identify. I am not nor have I ever been thought of as strictly an American. I am not accepted as such by "white" society. My parents want me to know where I came from meaning to take the best of our culture and use it to further myself. As long as I do not forget that then they have no qualms as to what I call myself. Whereas I am asked as most Black or Asian people, to push aside that identity and accept an "American" one, where the acceptable definition of "American" is white European ancestry.

Our actions and our character should define us. Nothing else. Unfortunately there is a "standard" by which we are judged and that is our ethnicity based on appearance.

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