I'm not sure what reward awaits female martyrs in the (supposed) Muslim heaven, but Benazir Bhutto seems to have has as much a death wish as the bomber/guman who took her life. Will she become chief of the 72 virgins assigned to some male martyr? How else does one explain her blatant disregard for proper security in a country that is overrun with Taliban, Al Quada, other muslim radicals, run by a military dictator who is her political opponent, and harbors Bin Laden? Sadly I can see the day coming when the United States will have to invade Pakistan, it is the exact threat that Iraq was (falsely) made out to be. Hope her martyrdom was worth it, but I have my doubts. Such a sad religion, such a sad country, such a sad state of affairs. The United States has botched this one real good, way to go "W".

How exactly are you managing to pin the blame for this on the Bush administration?

A couple of articles I've read indicate the Pakistani government would not provide the security repeatedly requested.

Hey I voted for Bush twice, but in the end it is the Bush administration that botched Iraq (both the reason to invade and the invasion itself) and failed to catch Bin Laden. What benefit has come from calling Pakistan an ally? If they are an ally, why support Bhutto? If Bhutto mattered, why not provide her with security since Musharref would not?

I think the failure to catch Bin Laden and put an end to Al Qaeda rests squarely on Bush's shoulders. Now our reputation is tarnished, both as a force of good and a force of might. Even more blame goes to Rumsfeld, but the CIC has to take the ultimate blame, that's what being president is all about.

Bhutto died because Pakistan is a mess, and the Bush administration helped make it that way through lies, deception, and inaction. Every major news source refers to Pakistan as "a critical ally in the war on terror". Too bad, since that is what Iraq was to us back in the '80s (Reagan took Iraq off the list of known terrorist countries) and look how that turned out. History will likely repeat itself.

And knowing that, Bhutto rides around standing out of a sunroof? That really is suicidal behavior.

samedge12:

A couple of articles I've read indicate the Pakistani government would not provide the security repeatedly requested.

Question I have, is that if it happened back in the Regan days - why didn't you smell it after the first election? I mean its the same script.

And knowing that, Bhutto rides around standing out of a sunroof? That really is suicidal behavior.

Why not just chide her for going out in public at all. The simple fact of the matter is she had just finished addressing a crowd of supporters, got into her vehicle and rose to wave to them when she was gunned down. She wasn't just riding around standing out of a sunroof, her car hadn't even left the rally yet.

As the New York Times reports:

Senior officials in Ms. Bhutto’s party said she was leaving after addressing the rally and stood up through the sunroof of her car to wave at the crowd when she was hit in the head by a sniper in a nearby building.

The Washington Post confirms this:

Bhutto, 54, was leaving the rally in her bulletproof vehicle when she asked that the sunroof be opened so she could bid supporters farewell, aides who were with her said.

The simple fact of the matter is she could have also been gunned down while addressing the crowd moments earlier. Is that suicidal too? What would you define as acceptable--not leaving the confines of her house at all?

Please have at least the minimum facts before you spout such stupidity. Then again, if you bothered with the facts, you wouldn't share your ignorance with the rest of us.

The Bush Administration has been an unbridled supporter of the Musharraf dictatorship since the day Bush came into power. Under Bush, billions upon billions of dollars have been flooded into Pakistan, ostensibly to help in the war on terror, even though there is ample evidence that Pakistan was diverting the funds for other purposes.

Musharraf's obstinance was increasingly becoming a black eye for the Bush Administration. As a result, the U.S. encouraged Bhutto to return to Pakistan and forge a power-sharing agreement with the military dictator and vice versa. This was a much need figleaf of democracy, as the Financial Times called it today.

Nonetheless, the Bush Administration's insatiable friend never took the most basic steps to safeguard Bhutto upon her return. This was evident in the October 19th failed assassination attempt that left approximately 140 dead.

Like so many of the U.S. "puppets" over the years, it has been truly difficult who is really the puppetmaster and who is the puppet.

Today's assassination of Bhutto is a culmination of multiple failures of the Bush Administration in properly dealing with Musharraf and Pakistan.

Far more elegant than the ignorance spouted above:

‘Only democracy can defeat Pakistan’s extremists’

Benazir Bhutto

Published: October 21 2007 18:53 | Last updated: October 21 2007 18:53

I did not come this far in life to be intimidated by suicide bombers. There is a battle raging in Pakistan for the hearts and minds of a new generation. It is a battle for the future of Pakistan as a democratic nation.

The new generation will choose moderation or extremism; it will choose education or illiteracy; it will choose dictatorship or democracy; it will choose tolerance or bigotry; and it will choose peace or war. I returned to Pakistan this week to lead the fight for democracy. With the blood of my supporters on the streets and on our clothes, I reaffirm my commitment to these values.

I know that the militant forces fear me as their enemy. General Zia-ul-Haq, the extremist dictator of Pakistan in the 1980s, once said that the greatest mistake in his life was not killing me when he had the chance.

The battle for the future of the people of Pakistan rages in every village and on every city street corner. The crowds that gathered at Karachi airport came from far and wide, despite the threats, despite the risk it carried. They are the real face of Pakistan, the moderate middle.

The future direction of Pakistan should be settled through fair and free elections, scheduled for later this year. The extremists will use everything in their bloody arsenal to strike and obstruct the cause of democracy. They use violence to block the people’s freedom of association and expression, to turn them away from our nation’s transition to democracy.

The attack on me was more than an attack on an individual. It was meant as an attack on all the political forces in Pakistan that want democracy. The attack was on Pakistan itself. It was an attack on the human and political rights of every citizen and on the political process.

It was intended to intimidate and blackmail all the political parties in our society. It was a warning to members of civil society.

The extremists thrive under dictatorship; they know that moderation and democracy is their undoing. They will stop at nothing to undo both.

The murderers who killed 140 people in Karachi last week violated the very heart of the Islamic message. Muslim law makes it absolutely clear that unprovoked attacks on unarmed civilians and innocent people and the destruction of property is prohibited under Islam. Their actions are hiraba (war against society). They may hijack aircraft but they cannot hijack the message of Islam.

The militants know that democracy can save Pakistan from the politics of extremism preached by warlords. They are trying to take over the state of Pakistan by attacking its political process and challenging its law enforcement.

They cannot murder the dreams and hopes of the poor people of Pakistan of democracy for a better future. The international community has condemned the terrorist attacks of October 18 in Karachi, grieved with the families of the dead, prayed for the early recovery of the injured.

All our thoughts, prayers and sympathies are with those who laid down their lives, or were wounded, and their families. They made the ultimate sacrifice for the cause of democracy and the fundamental rights of the people. May God rest their souls in eternal peace.

The greatest memorial to these brave citizens will be a strong, viable and moderate democratic Pakistan.

Or maybe it will choose a little bit of both.

I'm taking bets 2:1 odds.

...by the way, yes, according to this short video from a young muslim woman, female martyrs get to be one of the 72 maidens that a male martyr gets.

Of course....the math seems a little off....

<link>

Or maybe it will choose a little bit of both.

I'm taking bets 2:1 odds.

Ah, I see, you are the "Master of Facts"... and I am the "Spouter of Ignorance". What a fool you are. When giving a speech, most politicians have a security detail that watches the crowd... if they do not, given the political climate in Pakistan, they would be risking their lives. I am only suggesting that Ms. Bhutto needed security, probably had some, but not enough given her situation. Driving in a motorcade is a time of greater vulnerability than giving a speech. Hanging out of a car, waving to supporters is a good way to get shot, as the shootings of JFK and the Pope have shown. The pope still speaks in public, but he rides around in a bulletproof car for good reason, and certainly the president of the United States no longer rides around in a convertible waving to the crowd. Ms. Bhutto knew the dangers she faced and she chose to tempt fate. I doubt she would have been totally safe in her home, either. Ms. Bhutto was well known for disregarding her own safety... yes that makes her brave but in Pakistan at this time it also perhaps made her suicidal... or "Martyrdom Prone" if you prefer. Had she chosen to be careful after giving her speech and stayed in her car, she'd likely be alive right now (no guarantees).

I would suggest that you are the ignorant one, or at least blind to the actual facts you claim to know so well. Dream on, sucker!

spruce:

The simple fact of the matter is she could have also been gunned down while addressing the crowd moments earlier. Is that suicidal too? What would you define as acceptable--not leaving the confines of her house at all?

Please have at least the minimum facts before you spout such stupidity. Then again, if you bothered with the facts, you wouldn't share your ignorance with the rest of us.

Bhutto had security detail and was in a bulletproof vehicle. In fact, she had on several occasions openly criticized Musharraf for not providing enough security, as promised. The mistake she made, which resulted in her death, was the decision to rise out of her sunroof and wave to well-wishers and supporters before departing the rally.

Further supporting evidence, from CNN:

Bhutto spent her final moments giving a stirring address to thousands of supporters at a park in Rawalpindi, a city of roughly 1.5 million that is 14 km (9 miles) south of the Pakistani capital, Islamabad.

She climbed into a white Land Rover and stood through the sunroof to wave to crowds after the speech.

It was then that someone fired two shots, and Bhutto slumped back into the vehicle, said John Moore, a news photographer with Getty Images who saw what happened

Additionally, as the Telegraph reported in October, she had U.S. security:

Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister of Pakistan, is expected to get American-trained guards and the latest electronic security equipment amid fears that she could be assassinated when she returns home to contest parliamentary elections...

...Ms Bhutto has already made some security preparations of her own. After several weeks of haggling with authorities in the volatile port city of Karachi, where she is due to land, her Pakistan's People's Party has received permission to import a bullet-proof car.

It is fascinating that I can provide direct quotes from reporters on the scene and from other sources, yet I am the ignorant one, while you can make unfounded statements about death wishes and martyrdom without any supporting evidence.

Bhutto did know the dangers she faced, but went on with her life and ambitions nonetheless. This showed courage. What you advocate is cowardice.

Looking at CNN's headline this morning... "Benazir Bhutto died from a fractured skull after hitting her head on a lever -- not from a bullet or shrapnel, Pakistan's Interior Ministry says." one can conclude, after looking at the pictures published in the NYTimes showing the vehicle intact after the explosion, that had Ms. Bhutto stayed in her car she would indeed have survived the attack on her life.

Considering how many deaths in Muslin nations are associated with bomb/suicide attacks, I again advocate prudence, not cowardice. Your conclusions are odd and erronious, as if you advocate suicidal behavior by politicians. Calling this behavior "courage" is just what every muslim martyr has told themselves before dying. Too bad Bin Laden doesn't have the "courage" to "martyr" himself. All he has to do is stick his head out of a cave.

U.S. soldiers die almost every day from IED attacks iraq, as Ms. Bhutto herself was targeted by bombers when she returned to Pakistan, and many people died. Why make yourself an even more inviting target, it's not just her own life that was lost.

Besides, providing direct quotes from the press doesn't make you right. Why have a bulletproof car if you won't stay in it? So she expected to get U.S. trained guards, which I advocated... but she didn't have them! At least you acknowledge that standing out of the sunroof was a mistake, but giving her the benefit of the doubt regarding her foolishness (or worse) in doing so seems odd given the environment in which she was operating, and the recent history of attempts on her life. Knowingly or unknowingly, she acted as if she had a death wish, of if you prefer less harsh language... she acted as one who did not fear for her life aka she had a martyr complex. If you ever find yourself on a world stage, as a politician, you will perhaps understand the gamble she took, but to say she didn't help it happen is to ignore the whole of the circumstance.

spruce:

It is fascinating that I can provide direct quotes from reporters on the scene and from other sources, yet I am the ignorant one, while you can make unfounded statements about death wishes and martyrdom without any supporting evidence.