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Herod
by Racje
+1 Reply
"In terms of plain narrative, the Nativity story is hard to beat. It has pretty much everything: a journey, a baby, a mass murderer, refugees, the kindness of strangers, music, animals and big, big special effects."

Old fashioned Nativity scenes usually do have Herod, sitting off to the side, looking mean and miserable. This gives the story the drama, the shadow of evil, and the edge of truth that it needs. Yet it seems that many of the creche scenes I see contain only sweetness and light. Without the dark side, the light becomes only a pastel sentiment.
You're weird.
by Fritz Gerlich

Even I, the Scourge of Sentimentality, can grasp the attraction of the common Nativity portrayal, without Herod or any other symbol of evil. Christmas has always been a celebration of innocence, hope and joy. It doesn't need a reminder of evil, since its whole point is, as it were, to take a break from the omnipresent evil of human life. The creche scene is like a little island of light in a dark ocean of suffering and despair. It may be a myth, but like all myths it expresses something very fundamental, the human need to feel free, for a few moments at least, of the weight of our ordinary existence. Herod lurking off to one side would scarcely contribute to that, or even be consistent with it.

I'd like to see some evidence of your claim that "old fashioned Nativity scenes usually do have Herod, sitting off to the side, looking mean and miserable." I've never seen one, or even heard of one. I'm moderately familiar with Christian iconography, including of the Nativity, and I cannot recall a medieval or Renaissance portrayal of the Nativity or Christ's infancy in which Herod is present, although I can think of a few in which the Cross is intimated. Liesl Schillinger's slide show on creche scenes and their history doesn't mention Herod. Where have you seen this Herod?

Re: You're weird.
by bugger

For a mere $1100, you can have one of your very own!

<link>

"This outstanding set is made using Hillig?s ?dough? technique. Complete with 13 figures, the set includes the holy family, wise men, heralding angel, ox and donkey. In true Erzgebirge fashion, King Herod and his soldiers are also included to allow for a more complete telling of the story. Aesthetically pleasing, the figures in this set are 5.5? high and makes up a substantive scene to be proudly displayed in any home."

And, thanks to you for making me look this up, "Erzgebirge" is my new favorite word. I'll use it whenever I hit myself with a hammer when my 3-year old is around (this happens more often than you'd think). ERZGEBIRGE!!!!!

Thanks.
by Fritz Gerlich

I see that Racje is right that Herod is sometimes part of the Nativity tableau. However, if you check the Hillig link on the site you reference, you'll find this statement about the inclusion of Herod and his soldiers: "The addition of these figures in nativity scenes is unique to the Erzgebirge," which if true indicates that it is not a very widespread custom.

Not having any idea what "the Erzgebirge" is, I looked it up. The name means "Ore Mountain Range." It is a small range on the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia. In photos it looks more like hills (when I live, it isn't a mountain unless it has snow on it year round). Wikipedia says:

The Ore Mountains are famous for many Christmas traditions. As the silver and tin deposits declined, former miners had to look for new ways to feed their families. In addition to lace making and weaving, the inhabitants went into wood carving. Nutcrackers, "smoking men", "christmas pyramids" (carousels with figures of the Christmas story or from mining) and Schwibbogen (wooden arcs with candles in the windows, representing a mine entrance) are some of many Christmas goods made in the Ore Mountains. Seiffen in the East Ore Mountains is a centre of the wooden toy industry.

Re: Herod
by San

Herod was the original Christmas Grinch.

;/

Re: Herod
by Racje
Grinch, indeed. Your wry smile is about right, San. The idea of hitting my thumb with a hammer (or, in my case, burning it on a hot pan of roasted chestnuts) and shouting "Erzgebirge!" -- well, that will be good to remember. ;-/

Of course after shooting my mouth off I had to go online and check. I found several pictures of Herod in Nativity scenes, in Poland, Russia, Austria and Germany. Herod often is hidden behind a curtain, or is glimpsed through a window, or is sensed through a menacing appearance of soldiers.

I first encountered Herod-in-the-creche through the contemplative monastic tradition in which each person would draw a name, and create a simple clay model of shepherd, magus, angel, ox, ass, ... or Herod, and contemplate the birth of Jesus through that point of view.

Herod wasn't in the stable. (Neither were the magi.) But his menace is part of the nativity story. Innocence and liberating joy are never safe, and the story in its full depth is not a children's story. Herod is real, as real as the magi.

"The infant Messiah is adored and persecuted, anticipating thus the future destiny of his person and mission. He remains a challenge to this day to both those who adore him and those who persecute him."
<link>

Some more links--I enjoyed seeing all the different creches (sorry I'm not html proficient)

Germany (Erzgebirge)
<link>
<link>

Austria <link>
<link>

Poland <link>

Russia (Herod is the bottom picture)
<link>

Dayton, Ohio <link>

Monastic tradition:
Story as a Way of Knowing, Kevin M. Bradt, Rowmay & Littlefield, 1997, pp. 212-213
“A drawing was held in which those present chose … the figure they would make for the crèche.… when all the figures, including Herod, had found their places and the year’s crèche was completed and assembled, a silent procession of adoration and prayer took place… the figure chosen (or, as most in the monastic community would say, the figure that chose you) became one’s personal guide and mentor into the Christmas story… the ancient mystery and story of the birth of Christ was perceived from the perspective of one of the characters….. “
Current version
by Horus
..could include a priest bending a choirboy over the altar for his own act of sacrifice...
Re: You're weird.
by Citizen
OK I can't find "ERZGEBIRGE" in any dictionary, what does it mean?
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