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CIA tapes
by SlaterBait

Two things to think about:

1) I heard the tapes add up to many hundreds of hours, including observation of the prisoners in their cells eating, sleeping and other necessary functions...

Is this true?

What are the logistics necessary to "scrub" such tapes? They are so highly classified that it would take a significant percentage of the government's appropriately cleared personnel ...and on top of that, a translator is required to confirm the translations that were made at the time.

2) Compartmentalization...

Having worked 30+ years in and around classified projects, I can be very, very sure that the number of people who knew of the existence of these tapes early in their life was very small. And it is also quite common for the higher-ups not to be informed of sources and methods, including access to raw intelligence such as the interrogation tapes. This is done precisely to protect the personnel and techniques from compromise by politicians and bureaucrats "without the need to know". ...THAT is precisely why the president is read a concensus "summary" intelligence document.

To the degree these are the facts, I think it is reasonable to assume the following:

At the time when these tapes were made, concern about torture and the international implications of using torture was known, but so minor compared to the priority of preventing a follow up to 9-11 as to easily have been overlooked within the very small group of people cleared to the methods used.

Then, when the tapes were no longer deemed needed for intelligence purposes, the sheer volume of the material meant that no one having the rank to render judgement had the time to sit through the tapes and figure out what risk they actually presented. The higher management probably came to view the whole issue as a "hot potato" that no one was willing to handle.... time pressure was an easy excuse.

The career CIA officer who was responsible for this operation recently retired. I strongly suspect he chose to destroy the tapes his own with relatively low-level legal approval in the belief he was effectively "taking a bullet for his country..." (at least in his mind) if his action were to become known.

...what? You never watched "24"? You never read ANY spy novel? You never read ANY history of the intelligence services during any of the World Wars? MOST people are NOT lawyers... actions speak louder than legal briefs to just about anyone in positions of authority outside of the courts. This is especially true in organizations where people risk their lives "for their country" (or for their neighbors, e.g. firemen, police and other emmergency responders.)

Now it is all political one-ups-man-ship.

The guy, just praised last August by the DEMOCRATIC chairmen of the intelligence committees, probably will be dragged through the mud and possibly imprisoned for doing exactly what the politicians themselves would have done under the circumstances.... if they had the courage somewhere in their bones to actually take on such a dangerous task.

Such is life in this world... torture the torturer with one hand while sanctimoniously decrying all torture with the other.

Re: CIA tapes
by NickD

I will never condone torture in my name for any reason.

America was a better country when it stood above such atrocities.

Re: CIA tapes
by Fierry Persuit
...Which of course begs the question:"When was that?"..;)
Re: Good onya Nick, but............
by volition

To think that "a better country American style atrocities" haven't taken place in the past, is a statement of denial.

Preservation is the nature of the beast

Re: CIA tapes
by volition

Fierry Persuit:
...Which of course begs the question:"When was that?"..;)

you took the words right out of my mouth...

when, indeed

Re: Good onya Nick, but............
by Fierry Persuit
The beast has many manifestaions...My land is still suffering.
Re: Good onya Nick, but............
by NickD

Our nation has made many mistakes, however our treatment of prisoners of war in the rear echelons away from the front has not been the wholesale dehumanization of our fellow man. At least not in the last 100 years.

What took place in this nations more distant past is deplorable. From our treatment of an entire group of people in slavery to our treatment of the native Americans, we have a duty to prevent from ever happening again, anywhere.. Many foreign nations hold up this past as a way to show us as a barbarous nation. However the strides we had taken over the last 100 years, until the Bush administration, had basically shown we were of the most civilized peoples of the world. Bush has set the United States back 100 years, and he has put us into so much debt it will take us 300 years to recover.

Re: Good onya Nick, but............
by Buckshot2

NickD you are one that dosn't know what the hell he is talking about. I am an old spook and for sure do what is necessary to win is the main object. The torture that they talk about today is child's play compared to what took place in WWII and Korea not to mention the cold war.

I sure the CIA and others are doing what is necessary to secure this country and why worry about people that cut the heads off our prisnors or routinely bomb children.

No warrior is as mean as a anglo-saxon christian warrior after his friends have been killed and that is a fact.

Re: Good onya Nick, but............
by NickD

Our nation has loudly and proudly thumped its chest regarding the proper treatment of our soldiers. Our PUBLIC stance has always been for humane treatment of prisoners of war.

I know bad things happen on a battle field. But torture of people who have been removed to the rear should never ever happen, period.

If you have tortured people then I am sure you may know more than myself. But guess what, I still stand against your methods completely and so does every decent human being on the planet.

I will NEVER condone torture of human beings in my name. You sir are no different than Saddam Hussein was if you condone such acts against other human beings. May God have mercy on your soul.

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