Does does Governor Romney's religion matter? As for one who is evaluating all the candidates and trying to learn as much as I can, the answer is "yes" ... absolutely yes!

For instance, I'm not ready for a Muslim president here in America. If someone is a Muslim, I want to know.

Likewise, I don't think we would have been ready for a Japanese president back in the 1940's.

Are we ready for a Mormon president? Probably. In fact, that faith system doesn't present any conflicts (as far as I can tell) to the POTUS job description. In fact, I know several of the leaders in Congress who are Mormons and, from what I can tell, they are good people and do their jobs very well.

So, what's the big deal about Governor Romney's religion? Well, the big deal with me is this: credibility.

Right now, there is a serious credibility gap between teachings within the book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrines and Covenants (all Mormon authoritative writings, aka "scriptures") and what the church and its most prominent members are testifying about in public. Either Governor Romney is a bad Mormon or he is not being genuine about what his church REALLY teaches.

I've noticed the Slate has taken the snarky cartoonist approach to this issue by seizing on the Huckabee quote in the NYT interview wherein Gov. Mike asked if Mitt believes that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

Well, guess what?!!!!! The Mormon "scriptures" clearly teach that God (the Hebrew name of Elohim) was once a man with (you guessed it) multiple wives who eventually ascended into a god. (I'll use cap and lower case "g's" to differentiate between the Deity to whom Christians and Jews refer to as God and the beings all Mormons believe they will become as god. (Yes, Mormons are polytheists - surprised?).

This God of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures (named Elohim), whom Jews and Christians believe is the one, true God who created all there is and has no beginning or end and is an eternal, uncreated being, is the person that Mormon doctrine has recast a just another human turned god. He, according to the revelation Joseph Smith (don't get me started on this guy) received on golden tablets in the 1800's from an angel named Moroni (the golden figure you typically see atop Mormon steeples) fathered two human sons. One was named Jesus and the other was named Lucifer. Lucifer rebelled - just like in the Hebrew Old Testament. Jesus was the good son, etc.

So, laugh snarkily as much as you'd like about Huckabee's question, but that is what the Mormon revelations teach. Look it up for yourself.

But there's a bigger point to be made here and that is this: The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and The Doctrines and the Covenants are filled with muuuuuuuuuuch stranger teachings than the fraternal relationship between Jesus and Lucifer (aka Satan).

As you might imagine, there are tons of sites that attempt to discredit Mormonism as there is no shortage of target material. Perhaps the best site I've found is one called mormonchallenge-dot-com. Watch the video (or clips at least) of "The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon". In this fascinating hour-long film, you'll witness LDS (Mormon) archeologists, microbiologists, DNA experts, historians and other experts and scholars from WITHIN the Mormon church coming ot the conclusion that, based on scientific proof and evidence that the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrines and Covenants are fake, Joseph Smith was a fraud and the Mormon church is in huge denial about this religion they have built on a house of cards.

We're not talking about challenging their beliefs here, folks. We're talking about challenging their facts and, as Bill Maher recently pointed out on one of his HBO episodes, DNA evidence has clearly and unequivocally PROVEN that the claims of the book of Mormon are absolulely false.

Back to Romney. Again, what does it matter? Well, if a man is going to join and support a religion like this and openly confess that it is a Christian religion, he is either very naive or very deceiving. In either case, I would not want a person with such character leading our country. If he willingly participate in this charade, there's no telling what else he'll do. And, of course, this pattern of changing his position to conveniently fit his needs is now long established.

Here's my challenge to the Mormon church: If you people are going to continually insist that your "scriptures" are true, then, loudly, boldly and clearly admit that you follow what they teach and what Joseph Smith claimed to have received from the Angel.

Quit hiding from pressure. Everytime the heat gets turned up on one of Smith's weird teachings, your current "prophet" issues a new revelation. How can a religion and its adherents be credible when it has the ability to convienently change, not its practices, but its CORE TEACHINGS from its CORE SCRIPTURES?!!!!

At all costs, you should return to the polygamy that is commanded and required in these writings your worshp in order that you may occupy the "first class" section of Heaven you seek so much so you me (with all your many wives) can one day populate your own planet when you finally become a god.

Why shrink away from your teachings? If you're going to be a Mormon, be a good Mormon. Quit sneaking around and standing next to Christianity in camouflage so no one will know your true belief system.

Stop saying you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that the Bible is the Word of God without adding what else you typically say in that sentence when you're in your own congregations.

Admit how the "stake and ward" system really works here in American communities, like Pocatello, Idaho and others and how your perpetrate FTC restraint of trade practices every week by telling who can do business where and with whom based on their Mormon membership and home address. C'mon - fess up - be good Mormons.

Tell us what you really think about the Bible. Tell us what the book of Mormon teaches about the Bible and how it was revealed to Joseph Smith that the book of Mormon is the better book and how the Bible has become corrupt, etc.

Stop giving us these disingenuous soundbytes that just aren't true.

That's why Romney's religion matters to me.

Here is the big deal about religion. Does the candidate truly believe in the Book of Revealations prophesy? Does he believe that a nu7clear armegeddon is imminent. Millions of true believers do. A whold sub-set of American christians are counting the days and minutes to the second coming of Christ and the great (nuclear) battle.

We have a right to know if the candidate's religion includes dying for Jesus. You can call that a religious test, if you like, or simply call it a matter of life vs death.

Wow Nartha. That's a very one dimensional discourse. How and what are the inconsistencies of some of the faiths of the other candidates running for the presidency of the United States? Have you had any success in finding any sites that discredit those religions. I'm interested in knowing the best anti-whatever site for any of the other religions and if you've taken the time to spend an hour watching any of their anti-whatever films?

Take your shots at all candidates religions that are different from yours and spread your wealth of knowledge about them. I'm sure that there is no shortage of target material for any faith out there. I'm afraid for the person that tries to knock that chip off your shoulder.

Mormons will KILL for their faith and kill US citizens if they threaten to keep the Mormon leaderships from their goals.

goto Wikipedia or Google and look it up.

The LDS church condoned murder

Wow Nartha, I appreciate your input on my religion, but there are a few things that I would like to clarify. First of all, we are a MONOTHEISTIC religion. The God we worship is the one and only Biblical God. We believe Christ to be the ONLY begotten of the Father. But yes, we believe that we are ALL brothers and sisters and therefore, that would make Christ and Satan brothers in the same way that I consider Christ to be my brother.

" Stop saying you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that the Bible is the Word of God without adding what else you typically say in that sentence when you're in your own congregations."

We do believe in the Bible. In Sunday School I probably read from the Bible more then the Book of Mormon. And if anyone is interested in seeing what we talk about in our congregations, the churches are open to the public. Our church buildings say "Visitors Welcome". We aren't trying to hide anything. We want people to understand us. There is simply too much false information out there.

"How can a religion and its adherents be credible when it has the ability to convienently change, not its practices, but its CORE TEACHINGS from its CORE SCRIPTURES?!!!!"

The only major doctrinal change that has occurred has to do with polygamy. Polygamy was abolished, we believe, because God spoke to our prophet of the time and told him it was no longer necessary. That doesn't mean that it could never be a reinstated teaching. Would I have an issue with it if it was? Honestly, I probably would. I would have to do some major praying and soul searching.

"Here's my challenge to the Mormon church: If you people are going to continually insist that your "scriptures" are true, then, loudly, boldly and clearly admit that you follow what they teach and what Joseph Smith claimed to have received from the Angel."

We do boldly declare our belief in the teachings we believe come from God. The young people of church dedicate a year and a half to two years in declaration of that belief. Our church has a General Conference twice a year in which the declarations of our faith are broadcasted worldwide. The church runs a website dedicated to explaining our teachings and beliefs. On the first Sunday of every month, Fast Sunday, members of the congregation express their testimonies.

Thank you though for your questions. I really can understand your concerns. I don't deny that we're "different". However, when one always looks at the differences, the similarities often get passed up.

"We aren't trying to hide anything."

Then post the oath taken in the temple....

Leaf87, I'm not trying to argue for either poly- or monotheism, but how can you reconcile the doctrine of divine progression ("as we are, God once was; as God is, we may become") with monotheism? Are you parsing the language? By "we are a monotheistic religion" do you mean mean "there is only one God who is our father and whom we worship?" If so, that is disingenuous and frankly, would illustrate the very point you were trying to refute.

TruettCollins:

"We aren't trying to hide anything."

Then post the oath taken in the temple....

In the eighth chapter of Matthew we read of Christ healing a man of Lepresy. Afterwards he told him to tell no one about the act.

In like manner God has delivered the knowledge of the Temple Ordinances to us and has told us not to tell them to anyone. When God commands you not to discuss something, you don't discuss it. I myself do not know these "covenants" that are made in the Temple, though I know their purpose and general meaning.

I firmly believe that these same ordinances were practiced in the ancient church. They are not recorded in the Bible for the same reason we do not openly discuss them. They are too sacred, and reserved only for those worthy enough to reseave and understand them.

Boy don't you read alot into Matt than is there....

Now where in scripture will you ever find a blood oath.....since the Blood spilled on the cross is enough to cover all your sins......but then like any cult you add to the finished work of Christ thinking that man can do better than God.

Never do we take a "blood oath" for anything. I would like to see a quote from a reliable source that supports this odd but often assumed rumour.

And yes there are oaths and covenant given in blood in the Old Testiment. I speak of the anointing of the alter and ark with blood. This is not a Blood Oath as you might consider it, but is very similar.

Few Mormons realize that the LDS temple ceremony is not of ancient origin, nor of modern revelation. Instead, the ceremony originated around 1790 when the Masons first conceived it for use in their secret society. Until 1990 the Mormon Temple Ceremony closely resembled the Masonic Initiators Ceremony, signs, tokens and penalties included. I never made the connection between Masonry and Mormonism until I began a serious study of the Mormon temple ceremony.

Mormon leaders proclaim that the temple endowment was given to Joseph Smith by revelation, but after reading the book Freemasonry Exposed, I seriously questioned the validity of the Church's claim. After reading only a few pages of the book I could see the unmistakable similarities between the Masonic Initiation Ceremony and the Mormon Temple Ceremony.

Joseph Smith became a Mason on March 15, 1842 and rose to the sublime degree the following day. This initiation took place in his upper business office or Masonic lodge room (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 550-551). Only a few weeks after Joseph's initiation into Masonry, he taught the other LDS Church leaders in the same Masonic lodge room. Joseph's interest in Masonry became so infectious that many Mormon elders hastened to follow his lead, and within six months the lodge had 286 candidates.

Although most Mormon historians do not mention these facts in their church-authorized writings (including Mormon deception, intimidation, repression, theft, and violence as well as other matters that might call into question the sacred nature and integrity of the Mormon experience), they have to admit that the endowment ceremony contains many details that are similar to the Masonic initiation rites of the 1800's, especially since Joseph became a Mason such a short time prior to the "revelation."

1) Masonic Preparation Room
The candidate is ushered into the preparation room where he meets the Junior Deacon and Stewards who divest him of all his clothing except his shirt. He is then handed an old pair of drawers, which he puts on.

Mormon Dressing Room
The initiate is divested of all his clothing, and then directed to the washing and anointing dressing rooms where he eventually puts on a special pair of under garments.

2) Masonic Compass
The candidate then enters, the Senior Deacon at the same time pressing his naked left breast with the point of the compass.

Mormon Compass
The point of the compass is sewn into the left [breast] of the garment.

3) Masonic Square
As the candidate enters, the angle of the square is pressed hard against his naked right breast.

Mormon Square
The square is sewn into the right side of the garment.

4) Masons Washing Ceremony
Master orders the basin of the perfumed water and a clean napkin to be brought to him, and directs candidate to wash his hands, which he does...Master takes a box of perfumed ointment and anoints candidate on his head, eyes, mouth, heart, the tip of his right ear, hand, foot, and says - "You are now, my dear brother, received a member of our society."

Mormon Washing Ceremony
The initiate is washed, and various organs of his body (head, lips, breast, ears, hand and feet, etc.) are anointed with holy consecrated oil.

5) Masons Presenting New Name To Candidate
"I also present you with a new name; it is CAUTION"

Mormon Temple Worker Presents New Name To Candidate
" I give you a new name which you should always remember, and which you must keep sacred, and never reveal ... The name is ____."

6) Man Representing Adam In Masonic Ceremony
Thrice Puissant Grand Master, representing Father Adam, is stationed in the east. (This occurs in the Knight of the Sun Degree.)

Man Representing Adam In Mormon Ceremony
Elohim -- (Turning to the audience) - "This man who is now being operated upon is Michael who helped form the world. When he awakes ... he will be known as Adam"

7) Man Representing Deity In Masonic Ceremony
One of the members now personates the Deity, behind the bush, and calls out "Moses! Moses!" (This occurs in the Royal Arch Degree.)

Man Representing God In Mormon Ceremony
A temple worker dressed in white clothing, representing Elohim, comes from behind the curtain.

8) Masons Use A Mallet
He gives a rap with the common gavel or mallet.

Mormons Use A Mallet
One of the temple workers, ... gives three raps with a mallet.

Masonic entered apprentice vs. First token of the Aaronic Priesthood

9) Masonic Penalty Sign
Made from the due-guard by dropping the left hand carelessly; at the same time raise the right arm and draw the hand, still open, across the throat, thumb next [to] the throat, and drop the hand perpendicular by the side.

Mormon Penalty Sign
"The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side."

10) Masonic Grip
The right hands are joined together as in shaking hands and each sticks his thumb nail into the third joint or upper end of the fore finger.

Mormon Grip
The token is giving by clasping the right hands and placing the joint of the thumb directly over the first knuckle of the hand.

11) Masonic Wording Concerning The Grip
The Master and candidate holding each other by the grip, as before described, the Master says.
"What is this?"
Ans. "A grip."
"A grip of what?"
Ans. "The grip of an Entered Apprentice Mason."
"Has it a name?"
Ans. "It has."
"Will you give it to me?"
Ans. "I did not so receive it, neither can I so impart it."

Mormon Wording Concerning The Grip
Peter - "What is that?"
Adam - "The second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood."
Peter - "Has it a name?"
Adam - "It has."
Peter - "Will you give it to me?"
Adam - "I can not, I have not yet received it.

12) Masonic Oath
"... binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots ..."

Mormon Oath
"We and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any secrets of this... Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

Masonic fellow craft vs. Second token of the Aaronic Priesthood

13) Masonic Oath
"...binding myself under no less penalty than to have my left breast torn open and my heart and vitals taken from thence and thrown over my left shoulder."

Mormon Oath
"We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal the secrets of this ... Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies "

14) Masonic Penalty Sign
"The sign is given by drawing your right hand flat, with the palm of it next to your breast from the left to the right side with some quickness, and dropping it down by your side"

Mormon Penalty Sign
"This is the sign. The Execution of the Penalty is represented by drawing the thumb quickly across the body and dropping the hands to the side."

15) Masonic Grip
"Take each other's hands as in ordinary hand-shaking and press the top of your thumb hard against the space between the first and second knuckles of the right hand."

Mormon Grip
"This token is given by clasping the right hand and placing the joint of the thumb between the first and second knuckles of the hand."

16) Masonic Name Given
"Brother, I now present you with my right hand, in token of brotherly love and confidence, and with it the pass-grip and word of a Fellow Craft Mason .... the name of it is Shibboleth."

Mormon Name Given
"The Name of this token is your own first given name."

Masonic Master Mason vs. First and second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

17) Masonic Sign
"The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicular, one each side of the head, the elbows forming a square."

Mormon Sign
"The sign is made by raising both hands high above the head."

18) Masonic Penalty Sign
"The Penal Sign is given by putting the right hand to the left side of the bowels, the hand open, with the thumb next to the belly, and drawing it across the belly, and letting it fall; this is done tolerably quick."

Mormon Penalty Sign
"The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the right hand on the left breast, drawing the hand quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides."

19) Masonic Oath
"binding myself under no less penalty than to have my body severed in two in the midst..."

Mormon Oath
"We and each one of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this... Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

20) Masonic Grip
Grasp each other's right hands very firmly, the spaces between the thumb and first finger being in interlocked and the tops of the fingers being pressed hard against each other's wrist where it joins the hand, the fingers of each being somewhat spread.

Mormon Grip (Slightly Different Method of Grip)
The Grip is made by grasping the hand, the forefinger on center of the wrist and little fingers locked.

21) Masonic Grand Hailing Sign And Due Guard
The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicularly, one on each side of the head, the elbows forming a square.
The due guard is made by holding both hands in front, palms down.

Mormon Pay, Lay, Ale
The sign is made by elevating both the arms above the head ... the arms dropped to the square,... and then to the sides.

22) Masonic Apron
While the Wardens are examining the candidate, the Master returns to the east and gets an apron, and as he returns to the candidate... The Master then says to the candidate, "Brother, I now have the honor to present you with a lamb-skin or white apron..."

Mormon Apron
Adam-- (Turning to the audience)--"Brethren and sisters, put on your apron."

Masonic raising of Hiram Abiff vs. Mormon Veil

23) Masonic Five-Points of Fellowship as Hiram Abiff's Dead Body is Raised
He (the candidate) is raised on what is called the five points of fellowship, which are foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back and mouth to ear.

Mormon Five-Points of Fellowship at The Veil
"The five points of fellowship are "inside of right foot by the side of right foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, and mouth to ear."

24) Master Mason Raising Candidate
The Master, in raising him, is assisted by some of the brethren, who take hold of the candidate by the arms and shoulders; as soon as he is raised to his feet, they step back, and the Master whispers the word "Mah-Hah-Bone," in his ear, and causes the candidate to repeat it, telling him that he must never give it in any manner other than that in which he receives it. He is told that Mah-Hah-Bone signifies marrow in the bone. They then separate.

Mormon Passing Through The Veil
At the five points of fellowship ... one putting his mouth to the other's ear, in which position The Lord whispers: "This is the name of the token: Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews, power in the priesthood be upon me and upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout all eternity." The patron repeats the token and then they separate...

YOU SEE I HAVE BEEN THERE.....

First of all, I have never denied that the Masonic rituals are similar, but this does not prove that the ceremony is not of ancient origin. Joseph Smith taught (and I know your opinion on this) that the masonic rituals were a corrupted version of actual priesthood ordinances. He became a mason to have a connection with a group of people who were generally good men.

I will not descuss the actual ceremonies or garments of the temple. This is a sacred subject to my church and I will not blaspheme God by desecrating his house or commandments. The fact that anyone who has been part of these ordinances and have taken any oaths or covenants of secrecy and then publicly describes them should show a lack of integrety in the person, and therefore they cannot be trusted.

As I has said to others, I have not been through the ceremonies of the Temple. I cannot confirm any romour you may or may not have heard and believe. What I will say is that until you are able to go through these ceremonies yourself and know exactly what they entail, you should not discuss them with anyone.

You may think this secretive, or cultish, and that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion, and I have no problem with that. But when you ask me to desecrate the sacred word of my God just to appease your selfish desire to prove your opinion, then I take great offence. Asking any faithful member of the church to discuss these ceremonies is akin to asking a christian to commit murder. How would you feel?

So your god is Joseph Smith........

When did I ever say that? You might as well accuse the Israelites of worshiping Moses. I am simply stating that Joseph Smith, like Moses, received God's law and delivered it to us. The Father is the God we worship, through Jesus Christ (who is also a god by the way) and it is Joseph Smith that they chose to appear to. I thought you knew the story of the first vision.

But your Joseph Smith said "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

One of the test to see if a prophet is a prophet of God is do his prophecies come true.

Can you make that claim for Joseph Smith?