1) I'm not regretting that Bush didn't move to try to broker an Israeli-Palestinian peace for the past 7 years; given his track record, I think we'll be lucky if he doesn't manage to inflame the conflict there. The one thing learned early on in the Bush presidency was that, if the President turned his attention and concern in your direction, you should ruuuuuuun.

2) I think the two-state solution is a ship that has sailed; we're going to need a 3 state solution at this point; Hamas shooting at Farah demonstrations in Gaza, the PA shooting Hamas members in the West Bank.

The only thing I can come up with as to why Bush gets so much flack for this is that people just hate the guy.

Clinton prior to leaving office got Arafat the best deal they were ever going to get. What did Arafat do? He walked away. When Bush took office there was really know one to talk to, Arafat could know longer be dealt with in any kind of constructive way (its debatable he ever was) it was time to move on. Its hard to broker a deal between Isreal and the PLO when the PLO is fracturing before your eyes.

Today it is still fractured and on the verge of civil war. But hey,,,,its all Bush's fault. There I said it, and even though its not even close to being true,,,,,it does make things simple.

I don't hate Bush; I just find it impossible to reconcile his conduct with my values.

He does appear to operate without any indication of common sense. The same can also be said of the republican reign in the congress.

While I agree that the Clinton-brokered deal might have been the best deal the Palestinians were going to get, there were serious issues with it - I'm bummed that it fell through, but the Palestinians had reasonable grounds for walking way.

It's certainly not Bush's fault that the Middle East is the way it is - but the tragedy of this administration is its inability to take advantage of the opportunities presented to it - 9/11 could have unified the country, addressing global warming could've started years ago, etc. Bush has routinely been unable to recognize (or willingly ignored) opportunities. This isn't second-guessing - articles like this one show that Bush is getting the right advice, he just ignores it based on his gut, which has been shown to be wrong - consistently wrong.

He must drive a REALLY BIG SUV.

And who was it who didn't get Kyoto signed? (thankfully; leaving out China and India made it a really bad joke). I believe that was Bill. And if we crushed our economies by following all of the recommendations, what would be the effect? A tenth of a degree at the most optimistic. And solar studies are conveniently ignored; must be a lot of Martian SUVs are responsible for the shrinking of that ice cap

With Gore flitting about in a private plane erywhere, Edwards with an elephatine carbon footprint, and the Hollywood types ludicrous CO2 output, how can any spokepeople be taken seriously on it? It's necessary for the serfs to get in line, seems to be the line.

Mike O:

He must drive a REALLY BIG SUV.

And who was it who didn't get Kyoto signed? (thankfully; leaving out China and India made it a really bad joke). I believe that was Bill. And if we crushed our economies by following all of the recommendations, what would be the effect? A tenth of a degree at the most optimistic. And solar studies are conveniently ignored; must be a lot of Martian SUVs are responsible for the shrinking of that ice cap

With Gore flitting about in a private plane erywhere, Edwards with an elephatine carbon footprint, and the Hollywood types ludicrous CO2 output, how can any spokepeople be taken seriously on it? It's necessary for the serfs to get in line, seems to be the line.

Oh sure, it's the sun heating up the earth and mars together. But not the Moon, for some reason. There are 9-10 planets in the solar system depending on what you count, plus numerous moons, various asteroids and other hunks of rock; if the sun is warming up, I'd kind of expect them all to be warming up. or at least half of them. And the moon is hanging up there, just next door, convenient for measurement, getting the same amount of solar radiation as the earth, and hasn't warmed up. Wonder why, eh?

It's not as if nobody's been studying the sun's output. Even the most optimistic papers that find a solar effect conclude with something like "We estimate that the sun contributed as much as 45–50% of the 1900–2000 global warming, and 25–35% of the 1980–2000 global warming."(Scafetta, N., and B. J. West, 2006. Phenomenological solarcontribution to the 1900-2000 global surface warming. Geophysical Research Letters Vol. 33, L05708).

I.e. they estimate the minimum contribution of greenhouse emissions to the 1980-2000 warming to be 65-75%.

On another note, I assume that the rightwing's recently expressed devotion to people who put their money where their mouth is re climate change (as distinct from sexual preferences) has led the rightwingers to revere the thinking of ed begley jr.

"It looks like the show will portray how ridiculous these enviro-freaks are. And how impossible it is to live with them. And how joyless, to boot. It sounds hilarious:

...

Environmental Wacko & Actor Ed Begley, Jr. w/ Wife Rachelle Carson"

("Living With Ed": New HGTV Show on Nightmares of Living w/an Enviro-Freak", Debbie Schlussel, December 28, 2006)

Hmm. Guess not. So, you discount environmentalists who don't live like hermits because they are hypocrites; and you discount ones who do live by their principles because they are wackos. But it's not as if you wouldn't listen to all the others.

Sickofleft:

The only thing I can come up with as to why Bush gets so much flack for this is that people just hate the guy.

Clinton prior to leaving office got Arafat the best deal they were ever going to get. What did Arafat do? He walked away. When Bush took office there was really know one to talk to, Arafat could know longer be dealt with in any kind of constructive way (its debatable he ever was) it was time to move on. Its hard to broker a deal between Isreal and the PLO when the PLO is fracturing before your eyes.

Today it is still fractured and on the verge of civil war. But hey,,,,its all Bush's fault. There I said it, and even though its not even close to being true,,,,,it does make things simple.

That's funny; I came to the conclusion that the only reason people hate Bush is because he's an incompetent idiot with twisted ideologies, without the capacity to see that he's managed to do serious damage to America that we may never undo.

"Oh sure, it's the sun heating up the earth and mars together. But not the Moon, for some reason. There are 9-10 planets in the solar system depending on what you count, plus numerous moons, various asteroids and other hunks of rock; if the sun is warming up, I'd kind of expect them all to be warming up. or at least half of them. And the moon is hanging up there, just next door, convenient for measurement, getting the same amount of solar radiation as the earth, and hasn't warmed up. Wonder why, eh?"

Ummmmmmm just tossing this out there but wouldn't the fact that none of things you mention, like the moons and asteroids not having an atomsophere play a part in the fact that they are remaining ice cold?

Sickofleft:

"Oh sure, it's the sun heating up the earth and mars together. But not the Moon, for some reason. There are 9-10 planets in the solar system depending on what you count, plus numerous moons, various asteroids and other hunks of rock; if the sun is warming up, I'd kind of expect them all to be warming up. or at least half of them. And the moon is hanging up there, just next door, convenient for measurement, getting the same amount of solar radiation as the earth, and hasn't warmed up. Wonder why, eh?"

Ummmmmmm just tossing this out there but wouldn't the fact that none of things you mention, like the moons and asteroids not having an atomsophere play a part in the fact that they are remaining ice cold?

And that proves it's the sun, because??? To be taken seriously in the science biz, you can't just toss out random musings like when you were sitting around the dorm Sat. night when you couldn't get a date. We've got a perfectly plausible and well documented explanation for the observed phenomena; we're burning enormous quantities of fossil carbon, producing enormous quantities of carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been rising, as we've been burning carbon. Carbon dioxide absorbs infrared at the frequencies the earth radiates. Absorbing infrared makes things warmer. The earth is getting warmer, as we've been burning carbon and atmospheric carbon dioxide is rising. What in this chain is in question?

And the "scientific" opposing reply is: "The above mechanism isn't true for some reason we don't know about, there is no warming, warming is an illusion because there's no such thing as average temperature, carbon dioxide isn't rising, carbon dioxide is rising because of the warming not the other way around, carbon dioxide is rising because of volcanos, carbon dioxide is rising because of unknown natural sources, the warming is due to the sun, it's due to the sun but requires an atmosphere for reasons unknown, the warming is due to underwater volcanoes, we can't afford to do anything about the warming, warming will be better for us than the current climate, it's too late, and the warming is caused by cosmic rays". (all actual arguments)

Me, I don't find that a reassuring reply. I also find it strangely reminiscent of the "there's no scientific proof that cigarettes cause cancer" argument; which isn't surprising, since many of the "health scientists" propounding that argument turn out to be the same "climate scientists" propounding the above what-climate-change argument(s). What an odd coincidence.

This is what I love about the global warming people you can't even answer a question. All I did was ask a question, you gave me paragraphs of bullshit about how by asking such a question I have denied the earth is in fact getting warmer? Which for the record I never have.

Sickofleft:

This is what I love about the global warming people you can't even answer a question. All I did was ask a question, you gave me paragraphs of bullshit about how by asking such a question I have denied the earth is in fact getting warmer? Which for the record I never have.

Ok, I'll make it simple and easy to read.

If it were the sun only, then the Moon would be warming up. The Moon is not warming up. Therefore it is not the sun only.

If you think it is the sun but maybe atmospheres are necessary in some way which you don't know, then that is what is technically known as "just making random shit up". And is generally considered to be inferior to a theory consisting of a well documented chain of cause and effect which does not violate any scientific laws or observations of phenomena, let alone whose predictions are verified.

After all, you can always do that kind of handwaving: "Some unknown agent took all the stuff out of my fridge while I slept and replaced it with exact duplicates". "The earth was created only 6,000 years ago, but created to look like it was billions of years old by some unknown method".

For the advanced students, a theoretical analysis as to why it's not the sun: there are basically two ways you can cause something to heat up; put more heat into it, as with the sun heating up, or prevent heat from leaving it, as with the greenhouse effect. But the effect of putting more heat into it will be greater with more exposure to the heat source; as in summer vs. winter, the tropics vs. the poles, day vs. night; while the effect of preventing heat loss will be greater in the absence of the heat source, as in night vs. day, the poles vs. the tropics, winter vs. summer. The latter pattern is what we are now observing, which suggests that the sun is not a major part of what has changed.

Your post is a perfect example of why know one is listening to you. Again I ask a question and get a diatribe of self righteous holier then now response. "For advance students"......gosh u soooo smart and i ar so dumb,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

God must think the sun shines out your ass,,,,or at least one you does.

ONE of the things I can come up with is that the rightwing media is trying to get people to hate liberals. (And then claim liberals hate America and all that is good and decent. But what liberals actually hate is cruelty and dishonesty; note that polls show liberals do like John McCain.) I don't know if everything is Bush's fault, but the huge deficit, the Iraq war, torture and 9/11 are the fault of Bush. (C'mon, admit it, you know President Gore would have prevented 9/11.)

Sickofleft wrote the following post at 12/04/2007 10:57 AM:

Your post is a perfect example of why know one is listening to you. Again I ask a question and get a diatribe of self righteous holier then now response. "For advance students"......gosh u soooo smart and i ar so dumb,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

God must think the sun shines out your ass,,,,or at least one you does.

Umm. Well, are you George Bush?? You sure have hostility towards education and expertise. You take offense that someone might know more than you about something, or that it would be worth it to take time and hard work to get to an advanced level. Do you just go by your gut instincts rather than consult experts?