OK- since we are way exceeding the bounds of polite dialogue already- I am just going to get right to the point. Were the Jews ths smart before the holocaust? (I seem to recall that earlier IQ tests were used to prove their inferiority and justify discrimnation against them). Maybe the holocaust killed off the less smart ones. The smarter ones managed to escape the holocaust. How else do you explain the fact that only the ashkenasi (european) jews have high IQs whereas the sephardic (mid eastern) jews have more normal IQ's?

Hmm, maybe you're right. Maybe it's just the Ashkenazi Jews that are smarter.

The reason for the Holocaust was that the Jews had been incredibly successful in Germany and were thus resented. Throughout the Middle Ages, when Jews were legally excluded from many occupations, they had to use their wits to survive. Once legal emancipation occurred in the mid-nineteenth century, Jews immediately rose to preeminence in the sciences and learned professions, as well as in business. Today Jews are way over-represented at the very top of intellectual achievement, such as Nobel prizes in science and medicine and chess championships. As a non-Jew, I don't resent this at all but consider myself fortunate to benefit from their remarkable contributions to humanity.

I think icemilkcoffee is, in some sense, kidding. S/he's not actually looking for someone to present him/her a list of things that people of Jewish descent have accomplished. Rather, s/h'es pointing out the irony that the Germans used "lower intelligence" based on "IQ tests" as a justification for their eradication from society.

hmm so now that blacks have civil rights, latinos are gaining a lot of support in america, we have "science" to disprove their intelligence, much like the nazis did with the jews. hmmm...

The Nazis didn't slaughter Jews because they thought they had inferior intelligence. Quite the opposite, they thought a Jewish conspiracy controlled Germany and had stabbed Germany in the back in WWI. The Nazi ideology was much closer to today's leftwing notions of a Zionist conspiracy, whereby clever Jewish "neo-cons" are manipulating American foreign policy to benefit Israel.

Yes, and Litvaks are smarter than Galitzianers. However, the Glitz's are better musicians due to their natural sense of rhythm; they have better food and wine, too.

Why, there's nothing like kicking back with my Glitz bro's over a hot bowl of mamaliga with stewed mushrooms, passing around a glezel wine while the klezmers play that funky tuba-driven music like there was no tomorrow. Then it's back to the books for us LItvaks while the Glitz's sleep it off until the party starts again.

Jews weren't persecuted in Germany simply because of their success. They were seen as backstabbing, racist, and corrupt.

Oh yes, the Germans had reasons to kill Jews and gypsies and Poles and Russians and...well, lots of people, including lots of other Germans. But they had reasons for everything - loads of reasons.

I'd guess that Attila probably had reasons, too - though it's possible that he just liked being a brutal mass murderer. Not the Germans, though. Reasons. Lots of reasons.

"Lower intelligence" being ONE of them.