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But There is an Obvious Explanation
by Outrager
+2/-1 Reply

There is an obvious psychological explanation for these results, so obvious that it would be shocking if this preliminary study had shown anything different.

That explanation is that men fear the disapprobation of other men far more than they fear it of women, while women fear the disapprobation of everyone equally. So the male baristas are not discriminating against the women so much as they're discriminating in favor of the men, to minimize the chance of any unpleasantness from male customers. The psychological "cost" of ignoring a woman is lower than for ignoring a man. That's why the discrimination gets worse with busier stores and male staffs. In a busier store, the chances of customer dissatisfaction grows, so the effort to prevent it in the male customers increases. It also explains the less pronounced age discrimination--older customers are less patient and more outspoken.

And indeed, we see the signs of such discrimination in some of the responses in this thread. Misogyny generally manifests itself not so much in outright hatred as militant apathy. Men are tired of women complaining, when they do complain, and men are tired of taking the blame for "women's problems", except they're not the women's problems, they're very much the men's problems.

Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by Andrew K
I had the same thought. Male customers are probably more likely to be pushy or even rude. And they don't even have to be pushy to get quicker service. Simply being curt and not putting on the expected big happy face can do the trick.
Unbelievable that this got a checkmark
by Eigenvector

I truly wish Slate had done away with the checkmark system - seeing it in action here only confirms my disagreement with it.

So you disagree with the study, but only by proposing that it ignores the REAL discrimination? Can you please back this up with some data or are you late for your class "Male chauvinism and the decline and fall of humanity." Yours and AndrewK's response epitimize why this study was ill-conceived to begin with.

You're entitled to your opinion to be sure, I just wish Slate wouldn't promote it as indicitive of the typical response.

Re: Unbelievable that this got a checkmark
by Andrew K

"Yours and AndrewK's response epitimize why this study was ill-conceived to begin with."


?

I merely meant that men are more likely to be assertive, brusque, or curt, so that is a possible explanation for the difference. Perhaps the women in line take more time ordering. That is another possible explanation. I wasn't proposing any answer for the difference, just proposing another possible explanation. The study itself doesn't give us enough information to draw any conclusions.

Re: Unbelievable that this got a checkmark
by ianarcher
I agree with "Outrager" wholeheartedly. I find it highly irresponsible for the article's author to distill this study of such a complex system to a matter of discrimination (the support for discrimination is rather lazily constructed). Though regressing the argument to a hot-button issue makes for a sexier title and a few more readers (I was tricked), it does little to promote science or public knowledge and forces people like "Outrager" to do the real critical thinking in response.
Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by R.W. Morea

I agree with Outrager; I was thinking along the same lines before I even saw the reply. As a shyer female who has worked in the service industry, I can say that both men and women can be equally intimidating when they have a problem with the quality of service or product—but I've seen in my fellow staff and in my managers that male staff members are more likely to assert themselves and give a clear explanation without getting flustered in the face of a female, while a male can cause a problem for us all. Female staff members are more likely to run and get a manager before they try and handle an issue on their own, and female managers tend to be more accomodating to a guest's issue. The same works in reverse; male guests are more likely to press an issue until they're satisfied, while women tend to back down if experiencing the same amount of resistance.

Also, it seems to me that women are more patient than are men when waiting for a solution. I've never known any lady friend of mine to stop going anywhere over a difference of twenty seconds. The men in my life will complain about service more often than the women in my life, and servers probably assume that a younger person with an iPod clipped to his jacket or a female leafing through a magazine will be more likely to wait for a brew than a male who keeps insistently looking at his watch.

Of course these are all gross generalizations, which is why I found this article less than helpful.

Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by SML
Although the scientific evidence in this study is suspect, my personal experience agrees with the study's conclusion and many of the comments. Recently, a barista wrote a derogatory comment in Spanish about me on my cup, instead of my name. Not only was his comment hurtful to me personally, a hispanic friend of mine pointed out how racist it was of him to assume that I (a caucasian woman) could not speak Spanish. I did not stand up for myselft that day, but I siced my husband (a regular at that store) on them. We have now switched coffee companies and so have several of our friends because of this incident. Although this coffee company prides themselves on customer service, we have yet to hear anything from them about this even though my husband complained to several levels of management and several others have submitted complaints also.
Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by mrcaw
Mabye the ferocity of a customer has to do with the type of store. I say this because as a man, I've observed some pretty tough female customers in places like: Department Stores, Hair Salons, Grocery Stores. School Functions. YIKES!
Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by Sherry

Seems logical to me based on experience. I don't think it's irresponsible to discuss opinions without scientific proof; it would be irresponsible if people were silly enough to base major decisions on other people's non-scientific opinions.

Men and women communicate differently in general although there are exceptions on both sides. We've come a long way, child, but I don't think (or hope) the differences will ever be totally erased.

Re: But There is an Obvious Explanation
by Noznow

Caitlin Knowles Myers, American economist , is evidently educated way beyond her intelligence.

She is biased in a very natural emotional manner.

Outrager wrote a far more credible explanation: "... that men fear the disapprobation of other men far more than they fear it of women, while women fear the disapprobation of everyone equally. So the male baristas are not discriminating against the women so much as they're discriminating in favor of the men, to minimize the chance of any unpleasantness from male customers.

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