A central problem with this study is that it didn't attempt differentiate between what people say and what they do.

Oh sure, women say they want nice guys, intelligent guys who make them laugh etc. But I've known many such guys that never get dates, or at best they date a couple times before the woman decides the guy is "boring." In the hearts and minds of women don't we all know who they would choose? The nerd/geek/dork/brainiac or the jock/athlete/musician? The handsome and rich guy who is domineering and works 60+ hours a week or the ugly but nice intellectual who is there for her? Bad boy or good boy? The choice is obvious and not even really a question. In this women are similar to men: looks and income are at the top of the list. Women want guys with good genes (physical looks equal healthy children) and the money to support her and the children (income.) This makes sense evolution wise. Women do not want guys they have to actually talk to.

Perhaps this is why the divorce rate in America is at 50% and why so many marriages are unhappy.

Then there is the problem that this speed-dating study focused on college students. Do the same research using people who work in Wal-Marts, banks, real-estate brokers, construction workers. People already out in the world and working and living. Then the results might differ. When that study is done do another which focuses on artists, comic book collectors, scientists, journalists. Again the results may differ.

-Doughdee222

"I am a realist, not a pessimist. The real world is pessimistic by nature."

Oh sure, women say they want nice guys, intelligent guys who make them laugh etc. But I've known many such guys that never get dates, or at best they date a couple times before the woman decides the guy is "boring."

Preach Brother! Amen!

What age women are we talking about in your reply? Women in their 20's and maybe early 30's definitely say and do different things. A majority of women in that age range prefer the bad boys. More mature women prefer the nice guys. Those are the ones in with which marriage and long term happy relationships can survive. Of course, not all women like bad boys in their early adulthood, just as all women don't grow out of that stage in their 30's.

The divorce rate can't be explained with one factor. In fact I think it's the opposite of what you say above. I think that if women marry for income/ambition/power and men marry for looks in SOME cases for their first marriage, Later they are unhappy and divorce, and then the both of them look for a connection on intellectual, emotional and spiritual levels for a future mate.

When I hear this reply to this same assertion it always kind of ticks me off. So "nice guys are supposed to wait around until the women "come around" in their late 30's to early 40's and then we are supposed to gratefully accept their new found maturity? Unfortunately by then most are well used and "damaged" goods, while the "nice" guys are just as damaged with little to no practicle experience dating. I don't know about other guys but I'm not interested in being a fall back position for aging women.

Sorry, I'm bitter. I probably shouldn't say anything.

Though I understand your commentary, I still find it offensive. Human beings say one thing and do another, not just women. Many men say they want a commitment when they don't, lie about not cheating, lie about being able to be with someone who is smarter than them, and so on. Humans lie, or humans don't know what they want and say one thing and do another, but to pin lying to one gender and age group is actually kind of silly. And to call an older woman damaged goods...well, I am sorry, but that makes you sound incredibly immature. Good luck dating and may you one day find the ability to not be so bitter.

ALL women want the Alpha male, end of story. They will settle for you if they cannot get the Alpha, and leave you if an Alpha wants them.

The worse i treat women, the more they have loved me...the ones that I treated well, left me for someone that would not treat them well.

90% of women prefer to be mistreated, in thier dysfunctional world, they equate abuse with love

oh, Beaujoe, it's indeed a slippery slope you're treading...

but let's look at the whole argument righ there: should "nice guys" wait around for anything? no, and that's the problem right there. the world, being ya know, pessimistic & unfair, doesn't mean any of us are automatically entitled to anything at all. guys love to trot out that whole thing about how "bad boys" get the chick, but how 'bout an alternate way of looking at the situation: the bad one expressed an interest. yep, it's true, the same kind of cocky billy-bad-ass who'd drive around in his harley and thumb his nose at the establishment is the one who just walks up and asks for what he wants. he's the one who actually asked some chick out, instead of waiting for the chicks to come to him. us girls are trained from the get-go that we're supposed to be the more passive partners in seeking mates (how many of your female acquaintances, even in our more liberated times, will actually be the one to ask some guy out?!). we're not going to go "throw ourselves" at some nice guy, when for all we know, he's genuinely more interested than his comics or chemistry set than he is in us.

it's utterly possible to be both a nice guy AND to be more aggressive in approaching the ladies. for the record, i've NEVER dated some bad boy (well, for more than the one date it took me to determine his bad status), and all 3 of the people i've really loved were long-term healthy relationships with decidedly nice ones.

> the bad one expressed an interest

Heh...the bad ones usually don't express interest in anyone but themselves.

Many nice guys ask women out but get turned down regardless of well they pull of their proposal.

But whose at fault? The women? No. By nature and nurture women get to be the choosier.

The nice-guy-who-gets-turned-down-­a-lot (1) syndrome has more to do with the guy. I know cause I'm one. But it does not have to do with the lack of the guy trying.

There is the other side of the syndrome. The girl-who-turns-down-the-nice-g­uy-and-selects-jerks-until-she­-is-divorced-and-with-kids-the­n-she-wants-a-nice-guy (2) symdrome. That one has more to do with the girl than the nice guy or the jerk.

So one problem with men type (1) is that they often selects women of type (2).

Change your and problem solved. That goes for men of type (1) or women of type (2).

Here's the thing, though -- What kind of pond are you fishing in? There's plenty of women -- single, "undamaged" women -- out there who DO like the nice guys, and like to be asked out by them.

But guess what -- they're probably not the regular definition of H-O- double-T HOTT.

In other words, guys who want to be recognized and loved for their niceness ought to extend that same consideration to women.

Exactly what I was thinking. I've heard guys complain so many times about how women are shallow and don't want to date the nice guys, but these so-called nice guys are just as shallow for not wanting to date the non-hot women.

Or maybe it's that all the "Nice Guys" are attracted to the "Bad Girls". *smirk*

Seriously, guys like this are the male equivalent of middle-aged women who live alone with their cats. I'm sick of trying to explain anything about women to them, since they're too busy whacking it to internet (asian?) porn.

"Nice guys" who always repeat this bullshit never turn out to be nice after all. They just think they're "nice" according to some checklist they've made up.

Not to mention, niceness isn't enough for a woman to attract men either. They have to be hot. Men have to have a personality, not a jerky personality, but one that actually has interests and things to say. Men don't like "nice" women if they have average looks. They like hot women.

And as far as I can tell a lot of men seem to be attracted to beautiful bitches who treat them like crap.

Blaming one's lack of dating success on being a nice guy is pathetic, and false, victimhood of the worst kind. Girls don't eschew nice guys and pursue bad guys. They are attracted to confident, self-assured, motivated, fit guys with personality. Guys who are truly successful, loved by women and, just as importantly, respected by other guys, are those that excel in everything, are physically attractice, AND are super nice. To the extent there's any correlation between being nice and lack of dating success it's due to the fact that most chumps resort to being nice because they have nothing else to offer.

Anyhow, back to the study, do we know how much money they spent confirming the obvious? How about 4 more years of study to confirm that people tend to be less attracted to those who are overweight?

kreed4 wrote the following post at 11/09/2007 12:39 AM: They are attracted to confident, self-assured, motivated, fit guys with personality. Guys who are truly successful, loved by women and, just as importantly, respected by other guys, are those that excel in everything, are physically attractice, AND are super nice.

Exactly. All you have to do to date the average woman is be the perfect guy.

Well, no man is an island. You keep telling yourself that relationships should be a form of social darwinism, it fits right in with our modern American ethic.