Lot's of really ugly posts up here saying things like: "Well if you Jews are so smart how come you keep getting killed." Typical. Holding Jews to a different standard than everyone else. Or maybe you think that if black people were smarter they wouldn't have become slaves? Or whenever someone gets murdered it's their own fault for not being smart enough to avoid it? It's racist, jealous anti-Antisemitism of the worst kind. Any group able to sustain itself for this many centuries while being the perfect victim throughout the western world is probably above average in more ways than one.

So it's racist to question Jewish claims of higher genetic intelligence by invoking the fact that such a "smart" people were killed off in Europe by another people also claiming to have higer genetic intelligence? After all, the Nazi eugenicists came to the exact opposite conclusions about Jewish intelligence.

It seems to me that substituting one crackpot claim of genetic racial superiority for another is just plain stupid and deserves all the derision it gets.

Well I think you both should read "Eugenics in America" to get the real scoop on where this all started.

First of all, these aren't "Jewish" claims of superiority. But you do seem awfully sensative to the possibility that Jews might have some sort of advantage in some areas. Could it possibly be that some people don't like the idea of a Jew as anything but a victim? Indeed, the world has been slow to accept the idea of any kind of Jewish empowerment.

It's simply the way the numbers are. I'm sorry if you don't like them, but that doesn't make them false. And it's absurd to compare IQ testing with Nazi "science." I don't think your IQ score is affected by someone measuring the diameter of your head. And if it's so offensive to you, is it also wrong to point out that some groups are less susceptible to alcoholism than others? The reality is that there are <gasp> differences among people. No crackpot theories. It's just the data that we have. Now WHY this is the case is certainly an open question. But to say "if the Jews are so smart, how come they can't figure out how to not get killed" isn't an argument. Blaming the victims is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

I should add, of course, that none of this proves or disproves any of the arguments or explanations for the IQ numbers. I don't think anyone really knows those answers now. I'm simply trying to say that getting killed isn't an indication of stupidity any more than skin color or race.

Okay, I'll shut up for now.

Benslate wrote:

"But you do seem awfully sensative to the possibility that Jews might have some sort of advantage in some areas. Could it possibly be that some people don't like the idea of a Jew as anything but a victim?"

I can't speak for the original author, but I would say this: Of all the people in the world, there are some who "don't like the idea of a Jew as anything but a victim." So what? Every racial, ethnic, or religious group has some people who feel that way about it. Again, so what?

Better we should ask, "What are the consequences of one group considering itself inferior or superior to others by some criterion, and the consequences of a group being considered that by others? And why does it matter?

Statistically, adults of African ancestry have a wider range of height than those of European or Asian ancestry. Does that mean that the average Black person is more likely to be a good basketball player? No. Does it mean that successful players in the NBA, where extreme height is a great advantage, have a greater chance of being Black? Yes. Does this make them better or worse than other people by some other criteria? No.

...these aren't "Jewish" claims of superiority...

Sure. The real claim is to being a "chosen people"... and you would need to be really stupid to think that this is a claim to superiority </sarcasm>

That's a religious claim, and we're not talking about Jews as a religion, are we? This is an ethnic group that includes atheists like myself. Other religious groups also claim that they are god's "real" followers and everyone else is wrong. Religion and ethnicity are too different things, and criticizing secular Jews for the beliefs of religious people is asinine. I'm sorry, is this getting too complex for you?

More-PC explanation: When a minority group made up primarily of unarmed civilians is attacked, rounded up, and killed by heavily-armed people supported by government resources, any possible superior intelligence on the part of the vicitms has only limited usefulness in preventing being atacked, rounded up, and killed.

Less-PC explanation: If superior intelligence decreases your chances of being killed (e.g. by recognizing the danger earlier than others, or by having marketable skills which make it easier to emigrate), then survivors of such persecution would, on the average, have higher intelligence than the average intelligence of that entire group before the persecution.