I'm no lawyer, but the language after the comity stuff seems to expressly preserve the three branches or gov't working independently ("constitutionally"), no? But the secret annex stuff is disconcerting (I say this as a Republican). On the plus side, our citizenry are armed to the teeth, and wouldn't take to indefinitely suspended elections kindly. Democrats better stock up, just in case. We'll see what happens.

Here is the actual link to the document given by the Whitehouse:

<link>

Just remember, President can suspend the Consitution and institute Martial Law.

One of many WebSites:

(<link>)

Wiki:

<link>

In case it in invoked, the government will go down every list it has of gun owners, gun rights organizations, any other organization (including religious) and registries (motor vehicle, etc...) to find and confiscate any an all weapons, amoung anything else they deem appropriate, including and not limited too: food, clothing, books, computers, etc...

Don't take my word for it, just read history, while you can.

Freedom was and still is paid in blood. The founders of our Constitution knew this, so remember the political office cannot dictate life to us, it is the other way around however these type of documents show exactly what kind of world we are headed towards, no matter the political party.

Oh they will call me conspiracy theorist, of which I'm not even close. Don't have to be, the truth is far too much fun.

-DOH

If you think that law enforcement will blindly start going around confiscating weapons, etc, you dont know many cops. Especially small town cops.

Woody451, I agree with you. I'm sure they will not blindly go around because a Martial Law decree will dictate police and military on every street corner. SWAT, tanks, armoured vehicles, etc, etc, etc...

But then, you don't know the cops and military I know. A fair amount will not obey such illegal orders and others will have no choice, given family, life situations, etc...

Nothing in this realm is cut-n-dry my friend.

-DOH

It has happened countless times around the world.

When marital law is delcared, the cops get in line fast becuase they too are looking down the barrel of a gun. It only takes a few examples to be made and the people with uniforms figure out they either play along or get dead or arrested themselves.

There are plenty of angry young men around that will react favorably to a uniform, gun, and paycheck.

It is fun to pretend that you know your local sheriff and he knows you are so you are safe, but the fact is, the last thirty years have been one big exercize in militarizing our police and building a chasm between them and the community.

The formula for fascist police state coups is quite simply and highly effective. It relies on brutality and the softening of the law enforcement group through demonization of other groups.

The last thirty years of demonization of democracts and liberals for instance make it quite easy for right wing police forces to rationalize arresting huge swaths of citizens. That is the benefit of the right's eforts towards dehumanizing other people, be they liberals or Muslims.

Once they are dehumanized, it is easy to kill or arrest them.

Cops, schooled very heavily in law and order" rhetoric, plus post911 fear mongering, will mostly fall in line.

Sure, some will refuse, and some of the cops buddies will be spared a la Anne Frank. But as a rule, we are primed for a fascist style coup. The ground work has been well laid.

My own belief is that the only thing stopping the fascists was that a coup of this sort would ruin the golden goose that is our economy. Er, was.

Unfortunately, now that pirates have carted off large chunks of that, the incentive to keep the peace at home is gone.

Personally, I think the thing stopping anyone from trying to take over this country is the 2nd Amendment. If there is a fascist style coup that that takes over, I will not be here to see it. There are a lot of us old farts that are well armed and are quite serious about "taking our guns out of our cold dead hands." There are many people capable of and willing to pull the trigger if our freedom is threatened.

One reason that it has happened around the world countless times is that the people were not armed. There are lots of places in this country where anyone wearing a blue helmet is a target. Period. I cant imagine most of my friends or the posters here just going quietly.

From casual observation, it seems like most of America's gun nuts care only about the second amendment and consider the rest of the constitution disposable. For the most part, they voted for W, think every war is a good war, think "about time" when W ends habeas corpus and assumes the right to listen to all telecommunications in America without warrant, read all the "Left Behind" books like new gospels, look forward to the world war between Christians and Moslems as foretold in the Bible, and think that America and its constitution, like all things of this world, are not important in the long run except as they figure in God's plan.

I can't help but think the "cold dead fingers" crowd won't be shooting at G-men during "continuity." They will be manning free-lance checkpoints, searching wallets for ACLU cards.

are you batman or robin. the batmobile is parked near thr opec kingdom

Yes. I find your stereotyping of gun owners unfounded, uninformed, and silly. I know gun owners of both political parties, and of a number of different spiritual persuasions.

On a personal note, I own guns, do not consider myself a "nut", and do not fit or believe in ANY of the criteria you listed above. Nor do most of my friends.

You are right, I don't know any gun owners. But I think enough fit my stereotype that we can't count on gun ownership to save the US constitution or turn back a coup.

As I argued elsewhere, how the scenario would play out depends on how many soldiers the beltway crowd can mobilize to enforce martial law. If they don't have enough, the USA would begin to split apart, and W or his successor would only wield influence where the left-behinders predominated.

A Bush coup would not be accomplished by a statement that he is taking away everyones guns and then send in the troops to do it.

It would most certainly be done incrementally - I believe it is already under way, with the various legal mechanisms being put in place like the patriot acts, the waiving of habeus corpus, the voiding of citizenship. Essentially, most of the steps are taken now except the taking the guns part.

In any event, it would be done with something that divides the nation against itself -like for instance anouncing that liberals and blacks and hispanics are traitors and are being sent to concntration camps - then it would be done in a culture of fear - like for instance a major terrorist attack either staged or real.

In these circumstances, the right wing gun owners have already shown themselves more than willing to play along.

An american coup would not be an armed confrontation, it would be administrative and legal change whereby nearly half the nation plays along and never even notices the change - in fact they endorse the change. It is important to remember that nazi germany had a coup without ever really turning on the majority of its citizens.

Besdies, there is no reason to fire a shot, based on our reliance on access to banking and the health care system, drivers licenses, etc, the bush adminsitration can eliminate your existence adminsitratively without pulling out the guns. They just make it impossible for you to exist.

In any event, looking at what the right has done to america in the last decade, the founding fathers would declare that a coup had already occured and we were no longer the democracy they had envisioned, done without firing a shot.

You are truely, 'the clueless walking/talking'.

Enough said. ;-)

-DOH

31+ years ago, I was in USAF. My enlistment started ~1975 near the end of the Vietnam era, when they where evacuating Saigon via Operation Babylift. We also watched world events starting during Vietnam War (~1972) as the Shaw of Iran was outsted by Iran, was given santuary in US, US froze Iranian assets, bringing about the Iran Hostage crisis which killed Jimmy Carters Presidency. We where launching sorties all day long from Incirlik Turkey. At 130+ degrees on the flightline, it was not a pleasent thing and F4's made the job even nastier (Ever suck down super heated jet exhaust while buttoning up panels for a Air Defense Turn?).

In Turkey, they had Gendarmes', paramilitary police, on every street corner and outside the base was surrounded by both US and Turkish tanks (due to snipers) an especially around the large downtown Russian cement factory, which had huge microwave tower on its grounds. Was lovely working EOR (End Of Runway) with nice bright orange vest, marking you as obvious target, while waving aircraft into their holding spots before take-off. The soliders over in Iraq are facing higher temperatures with constant sand storms, IED's, snipers, etc... man do I understand that.

Trust me, I know many people from that era and you are clueless (only when you state) no one will stand up for freedom. The rest, I do agree with. You will be fairly surpised, because there are plenty of us 'old farts', willing to die by the thousands/millions to keep this great country from falling into anarchy, etc... but I have three reasons to live for, my three young children, since I got married late in life.

Also, imagine the social security system would get a boost if you got rid of all those old farts, eh? Schemes within schemes... the best laid plans of mice and men.

-DOH

a fascist coup in america would be accomplished without firing a shot, so to speak. There will be no frontal confrontation taking away guns en mase until it is way too late.

We are already several stages into the fascist takeover and I see no uprising of old farts who love freedom.

Stop thinking fondly of all the jet exhaust you ate and start paying attention to what it going on right now.

We are already well into a fascist police state here, perhaps not relative to totalitarian regime caricature, but compared to what the founding fathers envsioned, we are already long gone.

I saw none of you old farts resiting the patriot acts or the trying of a citizen as a non citizen or the kidnapping torture and indefinite secret detentions. In fact I see many of you cheer Bush's overt fascist actions and rhetoric. Why should we expect you will be rousd to act later further down the line when Bush actually triggers one of his secret quarantine and marshall law acts?

Hell no, they will find a way to press your buttons and get you to cheerfully give it all the way while waving a flag.

When was the last time, you or I got to vote on any of that legislation, which is my point. No, we cannot go waving our guns in the streets, because the shadows ill come out in full force before us old farts and you young folks can join together.

If we play our cards now, move our chess pieces now to try and 'check' this crapola, we will be taken out before anything can happen.

You points are well taken and I'm not narrow minded, even after eating so much jet fumes. ;-)

-DOH