I was raised in a church that celebrated human rights, charity, and peace, and my freshman year of college I found the campus Bible study was mostly full of people who had gone to churches like this girl's. I don't think it's necessarily Christianity that's the problem here, but how it was taught to her and the attitude of her church. If she's being raised in an almost cult-like environment where her mother is shutting out all other views and reminds her that her father is "damned to hell" everytime she leaves for his house...yikes.

I also wonder what the dad's attitude is. I think he presents himself in a fairly good light in the letter, but people generally do when they're writing about themselves. I have met plenty what I would call "fundamentalist atheists" though, the "Christians are horrible because they are judgemental" type who never get the irony. If this girl is stuck between a Pat Robertson-esque mom and a Richard Dawkins-esque dad, I feel bad for her.

Exactly.

Churches have no monopoly on judgemental fools.

I went to a neighborhood church growing up and it was very mellow. The people were all cool and we were kind of like hippies. We had some liberal ideas (especially social and economic ideas), but some of our mores were a bit on the conservative side. When I went to my campus bible study, people there told me I couldn't possibly be a christian because I was more liberal than they were. Needless to say, I stopped going to the campus bible studies and just reserved all of my christian activity for the weekends I went home or summer break.

Don't give up completely at school. You might just find some fellow minded liberal Christians.

We are out there.

"I have met plenty what I would call "fundamentalist atheists""

I have too, my personal opinion of these people is that they are closet theists. I believe myself to be comfortable with other people believing in a divine entity/entities. I don't like it, sometimes they annoy me to no end, but in the end I like to think I recognize that nobody truly knows, even myself. I think overly aggressive and angry atheists are generally speaking people who aren't comfortable with their beliefs and may even hold their beliefs out of spite or discontent. These are people who haven't even sat down with themselves and thought the matter through.

I loved the 'fundamentalist atheists' description. I have relatives that practically scream at me about my religious beliefs. They also have to criticise all religious beliefs, not just mine. I must be the only Christian they know because they seem to have a lot of penbt-up anger and animosity. They are so judgmental about people who believe in God or a higher being.

It sounds like the LW father is also a fundamentalist atheist. He has to spew his diatribe about how stupid people are who believe in religion. Instead of his hate-filled invective, he should talk to his daughter about how they could agree to disagree. He has already taught her what non-believers do on the weekends. Did he take her somewhere fun and exciting, or did he sprawl on the couch working through his hangover and read the newspaper and then watch the game on TV while she entertained herself? (I ralize that I am stereotyping here.)

>>I have met plenty what I would call "fundamentalist atheists" though, the "Christians are horrible because they are judgemental" type...

Christians aren't horrible just because they're judgemental. They're horrible because they're DELUDED. They're horrible because they're hypocrites. They're horrible because they can be just as violent and hate-filled as any OTHER fundamentalist nutjobs out there.

When's the last time you saw an atheist targeting "believers" with terrorist activities the way Christians, Jews & Muslims have?

ANSWER: YOU HAVEN'T

What's really sad is that you people think that YOU are the victims.

>>He has to spew his diatribe about how stupid people are who believe in religion...<<

He didn't do that.

You're a lying hypocritical POS, typical of other "Christians".

Now - lie some more, why don't you?

ard_vrk:

Christians aren't horrible just because they're judgemental. They're horrible because they're DELUDED. They're horrible because they're hypocrites. They're horrible because they can be just as violent and hate-filled as any OTHER fundamentalist nutjobs out there.

Some are; some aren't. For each of this items. However, I'd thank you not to sweep me up into your gross generalization.

Before accusing Christians as a whole, and therefore myself, of being judgemental, please re-read the paragraph you wrote that I quoted. Perhaps everyone in your world, Christian and non-Christian alike, seems judgemental to you, as a reflection of your own attitudes.

picking on Richard Dawkins? I say this mostly jokingly, but did you really compare him to Pat Robertson???? Mr. 'gays and the ACLU caused 911' and 'kill Hugo Chavez'? THAT Pat Robertson?

Dawkins didn't even get angry at Bill O'Reilly when interviewed. I hear so many christians talking about how angry/bitter/judgemental Dawkins is... I just don't see it.

If you really want some in-your-face, kidney-punching atheism, just hit the Back button on your browser a few times and find Mr. Hitchens. Funny, but yipes! not pulling any punches.

I was gonna make the same comment -- Dawkins may be outspoken in his atheism, but for an example of fundamentalist atheism, Hitchens is the name that always comes to my mind.

Getting back to the point of this thread--This is why it is hard to be a liberal Christian. Too many atheists insist that if you believe in any supernatural being, you must be a complete loony. Yet too many Christians hold you as a complete apostate for not being in lockstep with their theology.

The universe exists. It either created itself or something that we cannot detect created it. Either claim has to be taken on faith as neither can be proven nor is scientiffically observed today. Why does accepting the former claim make me a rational being while accepting the latter make me a moron?

Not all Christians believe Pat Robertson said anything worth listening to! Just like not all atheists are Christopher Hitchens. Not all black men are like Micheal Vicks. Not all black women are like Oprah. Not all of any group are like the one person on TV claiming to be in that group.

To quote a fundamental concept of logic: A -> B does not equal B -> A. A hateful venom spewing bastard may be a Christian, but that does not mean all Christians are hateful venom spewing bastards.

And that goes for atheists too.

See, now that's just rude.

Why don't you tell these people that it's really none of their business? There's no need to put up with garbage from either side, both can be equally obnoxious.

Sorry for the linguistic shortcut. That last line is meant to say:

A hateful venom spewing bastard can be an atheist, but not all atheists are hateful venom spewing bastards.