I'd be very wary of voting for a Mormon - but that's because I'm a non-Mormon Democrat living in Utah. Here, LDS theology permeates many aspects of our government - from public schools to liquor laws - and I would not like to see that influence extend to the federal level. It's a very real and divisive issue - I'm not speaking from prejudice (we are friendly with many of our Mormon neighbors and colleagues) but from experience. Also, I think it's fair to say that many Democrats would not vote for a Mormon because Mormons are by and large socially conservative Republicans (my apologies to Harry Reid).

• mormon
• jew
• catholic
• evangelist
• muslim
• buddhist
• hindu
• rastafarian

anyone who is receiving advice from a magical being in the sky just ain't right in the head . . .

fleeing:

I'm not speaking from prejudice

I am. I dont like Mormons. Think they're a giant cult.

I can usually vault up atop my high horse and sally to the moral high ground with ease. Mormons I stumble on.

Like you, I spent quite a few years in Utah as a non-Mormon, and its left its mark on me. Mormons think they can treat a non-Mormon any way they feel. Its ok to screw over non-Mormons, because they're not One Of Us, they're foreigners. Unbelievers. My mother went looking for work, theres a section on her employment application for her pastor's signature and her husband's signature stating its ok for her to work.

What? Is this America or Saudi Arabia? Lemme check. Desert. Desert. Desert. Gun toting militia. Desert. Religious nuts with wierd interpretations of monotheism. More desert.

Hmmm....

Top stories on the local evening news, excommunications from the church.

Kids dressed up like extras on the set of Little House on the Prairie.

Every sunday. Every sunday. Knock knock knock, you sure, absolutly sure, you dont want to go to church?

And not a beer worth the name in the whole state. Wasnt old enough to appreciate the barbarism of that at the time, but it makes me mad enough just not being able to buy beer on Sunday because the Christians dont like me boozing it up on their holy day. Keep your damn hands off my Magic Hat you religious freaks.

Lets, for the moment, ignore what a lousy job Romney did in Massachusetts. I think if he's elected president, we might as well move the nation's captal to Salt Lake City.

I don't dispute the general characterization of Mormons as a cult, and I share some of your general concerns, but as a resident of Utah for most of the past 11 years, my observations of their impact is not quite as drastic as yours.

I think, for example, that I have only had missionaries visit 2-3 times in that time (more often, I get Jehovah's Witnesses).

Also, parts of Utah (eg Salt Lake City, Park City, etc) are actually quite non-Mormon. SLC is quite possibly the most gay/lesbian friendly city between San Francisco and Chicago, as an example.

True, the beer available in grocery stores, sporting events etc is that weak, 3.2% swill, but in real bars and restaurants, or in the state liquor stores, the beer is the same as anywhere else in the US.

And aside from members of the polygamist cults, I have not seen any kids dressed like little house on the prairie.

As a secular liberal Democrat, I most certainly will not be voting for Mitt, but I think your impression of Utah and the impact Mormons have on the state is somewhat exaggerated.

Well, maybe things have changed. I wouldnt know about the gay scene in SLC, because that wasnt anywhere close to my radar ... good heavens, 30 years ago? Its been 30 years! Eep!

Sorry. Age grenade.

Anyways, back when I was there, while it wasnt all the kids, some of the girls would regularly come to school in 1800's style dresses, and all of them for school pix. I wasnt out in the boonies, either - Sunset, Ogden, Clearfield.

The problem with prejudice is that its blind. I was mistreated, treated as a hated minority, its hard, especially when it happens to you as a kid, to look beyond that.

I wont vote for Romney primarily because I've seen firsthand what a poor job he's done as governor, but I cant say with honesty that his religion doesnt weigh heavily on that decision.

I do think that the media has blown the whole polygamy thing out of proportion - Utah acts like its own nation in many regards, but the whole thing about the FLDS, well, that doesnt look like an ultra-orthadoxy version of LDS, it looks like an excuse for men to have sex with little girls - like the Children of God cult.

Nor do I activly seek out Mormons to hassle them, though, like any other religious type who comes a knockin', if they come to me, they're fair game.

"My mother went looking for work, theres a section on her employment application for her pastor's signature and her husband's signature stating its ok for her to work." Sword of Light

First, that's as inaccurate a characterization of Utah as any I've seen - nobody asks for any kind of religious endorsement as a requisite for employment (unless perhaps she was applying for a job with the LDS church offices?). Second, anyone with any exposure to Mormons wouldn't make the mistake of calling an ecclesiastical leader "pastor."

I'm not voting for Mitt either. But I sure am tired of seeing people pile on about the Mormons, when they're so woefully ignorant. I mean, stick to the stuff that's real - don't bother making stuff up.

Bigotry isn't any less bigotry when you're directing it at a group that's less sympathetic than the usual victims.

Frankly, I'd rather have Mitt as president than any of the other Republican candidates. With Mitt, you know what you're getting: a man who will always do the politically expedient thing. At least he's predictable, and at least he doesn't have a fucking ax to grind in the middle east, isn't pimping for the energy industry, etc.

The Mormonism issue is a red herring. Fall for it, and run the risk of having someone far more malign in the White House.

If you lived in Utah, Lightsaber, where did you live?

baltimore aureole:

• mormon
• jew
• catholic
• evangelist
• muslim
• buddhist
• hindu
• rastafarian

anyone who is receiving advice from a magical being in the sky just ain't right in the head . . .

Have you figured out how we get "solid matter" from "energy" yet. Of course God is real. That stuff inside your body which constitutes your "essense" or consciousness which disappears when the energy of your body no longer cooperates in a fashion to sustain said essence, where does that stuff go and why does the body, still consisting of active energy in various states, remain and why can't the stuff which constitutes the "living" emotive expression of who you are stay inside it? Why is it when the body is dead, the energy that constitutes the physical nature just doesn't dissipate, disperse, or dissolve more quickly than it does? Why doesn't the energy that is your dead body cease its on-going cooperation with the other "systems of energy" that do not allow the body to become part of the other energy systems of nature in a quicker fashion. And why aren't "you" there in the on-going cooperation of the energy that is not actually solid but looks and feels like it is to the rest of us who have to plant your dead carcus into the ground so the surviving spiritual energy beings that look and feel physical don't get into trouble with the collective government of other energized pseudo-physical entities? And why can't they just throw me on the compost heap...I really don't care. By the way, after your dead, no one will vote for you either because you would not be considered right in the head as well. Greetings to you from God! :-)

Read all the post he made....he was talking PAST, and in the past he does hit the nail on the head....in the last 30 years there have been many changes in Utah.....but then a mormon is still a mormon....is still a mormon.....

30 years ago it was 1977 - if his mother wasn't applying for a job related to the church, it didn't happen.

If you want to be a student or faculty at BYU, you need to have an ecclesiastical endorsement of some kind (denomination doesn't matter). They can get away with that because they're a private university. For all I know, Notre Dame and Loma Linda have similar requirements, though - it's not an LDS thing, it's a church ownership thing.

But no private businesses were asking for any kind of ecclesiastical endorsement 30 years ago.

I was living there too.

What do you know about Mormons, Truett? What makes them different from other religious denominations, in your eyes?

They just like the Catholics, the JW's and many others depart from the word of God....they like the Catholics put a mans will above that of the world of God.

Sarcasticus1:

baltimore aureole:

• mormon
• jew
• catholic
• evangelist
• muslim
• buddhist
• hindu
• rastafarian

anyone who is receiving advice from a magical being in the sky just ain't right in the head . . .

Have you figured out how we get "solid matter" from "energy" yet. Of course God is real. That stuff inside your body which constitutes your "essense" or consciousness which disappears when the energy of your body no longer cooperates in a fashion to sustain said essence, where does that stuff go and why does the body, still consisting of active energy in various states, remain and why can't the stuff which constitutes the "living" emotive expression of who you are stay inside it? Why is it when the body is dead, the energy that constitutes the physical nature just doesn't dissipate, disperse, or dissolve more quickly than it does? Why doesn't the energy that is your dead body cease its on-going cooperation with the other "systems of energy" that do not allow the body to become part of the other energy systems of nature in a quicker fashion. And why aren't "you" there in the on-going cooperation of the energy that is not actually solid but looks and feels like it is to the rest of us who have to plant your dead carcus into the ground so the surviving spiritual energy beings that look and feel physical don't get into trouble with the collective government of other energized pseudo-physical entities? And why can't they just throw me on the compost heap...I really don't care. By the way, after your dead, no one will vote for you either because you would not be considered right in the head as well. Greetings to you from God! :-)

I'm not here to defend BA. If she's ever voted in the US, then she's probably already voted for some of these devotees -- whether she knows it or not.

You seem to be confused about the difference between God and religion.

They have a special kind of insanity they share with the Catholics and Jews, though you don't really describe what that insanity is, which is different from your insanity, because God has told you in your heart that your insanity is actually keen insight and wisdom - as though the people you accuse of insanity hadn't similar experiences.

Thanks, Truett - nice to know that your biases are composed of such delusio substance. At least that's somewhat more honest than basing your biases on conscious fabrications.

Fas as I'm concerned, though, you're as nuts as the Mormons.

Oh well, at least the Mormons tend to be less apocalyptic. I mean, God forbid we'd get a Pentecostal, Southern Baptist or some other such whack-job in the White House - hell, they might decide it was time to bring on the "Rapture"!

I can't let this one stand -- I've lived in Utah around Mormons for most of my life, and I'm an ex-mormon for doctrinal reasons.

The comments by this poster are have by B.S-meter redlining.

Where, exactly, was your mother applying for wage-paying work that required a signature of a "pastor" or husband? In 20 years in the business community in Utah, I have *never* heard of anything remotely like that, not to mention the EEOC implications. Was it a volunteer position in some kind of private religious organization, or was it a real job? Come on.

On the subject of beer: Um...Utah has 5 or 6 locally brewed beers that kick the hell out of any microbrew I've had anywhere else. As for buying beer on sunday, like many states, that may be a county-by-county thing, but in Salt Lake County it's for sale every sunday, rain or shine.

And yes, I understand how alienating the insular culture can be, I'm feeling it now as I live here. But give me a break.

The standard Christian Bible with its miracles is a tough enough narrative to believe without bringing in North American aliens into the picture. And I'm not talking about Mexicans people!

And if you get a Mormon, next will be a Scientologist.

President Trovolta and VP Cruise anyone!?