Since I'm one of them, that's a good thing, basically.

After moving to Europe I was at first shocked, like any good American, at how waiters would not race over to the table or would actually be moody at times or not beaming with smiles at the unbelievable pleasure that my arrival gave them.

Now, it seems normal. What seems weird is when I go back to the States. Everyone is fawning all over me, smiling up a storm, positively bubbling over with good will. It's incredibly annoying at times.

What's amusing is how we in the US start focusing in on this need for "service", the over-importance given on what's essentially a performance, a tap-dance, by those serving us dinner.

In Europe the attitude is that both the diner and waiter are humans with full rights, nothing more, nothing less. The American idea that "I can march right over and get you fired at the slightest misstep" is unknown in many places elsewhere, as it should be. A rude customer is not always right, and it's easier to find another customer than a really good waiter.

Anyway. Could say a lot more about that but it's amazing how the perspective shifts. It's just dinner, folks. The person serving it should probably be civil, that's always a nice thing. More than that, and it really gets sort of silly.

While travelling in Europe and elsewhere, I've also noticed that difference in approach as well.

I prefer that polite, reserved, efficient and attentive waiter who knows when to appear and disappear, as the article discussed. I don't need to know the waiter's name or be asked how I am tonight. I have, however, been to some very good restaurants in the US where you do get this very professional level of service.

I have zero tolerance for any kind of service person, especially wait staff, who refer to me and the party I'm with as "guys." "How ya' doin' guys?" is a real turn off. If I ran an upscale restaurant I would consider calling customers "guys," or "folks" a firing offense.

How about handing the waiter a little card that says "I tip extra for rudeness". That might solve your problem of overly nice waiters.

See, that's just it. You (along with many Stateside) see acting like a normal person as "rudeness"

Nothing I wrote talked about rudeness, none of the behavior I described could be considered rude by any normal measure of human interaction-- unless it's by an American judging a waiter. Then "not smiling" is rude, then "he didn't welcome me as if a relative" is rude.

I've seen diners positively abusing wait staff in US restaurants, and it clearly never occured to them that they were dealing with a person, with equal rights. It becomes a little slave, an underling, because "I'm paying for this!" . It's all about money, at the base of it, as so many things are.

Well you see here's the deal whether you call them a waiter (someone who waits on a customer) or a server (someone who serves the customer) the job is the same you are paid to provide service to the customer. This doesn't require being my friend but it does require that you be polite. You do not need to be in a state of joyous rapture because I have arrived but you need to be pleasant, a smile is not required but an attitude is unacceptable. Your job is to take my order in a timely fashion after courteously answering any questions I might have about the menu and then deliver my order in a timely manner. If there is a problem and my order is going to take a long time you need to keep me informed and if there is a mistake you are responsible for rectifying the mistake. It is my job as a customer to treat you with respect; I am paying for a service not buying you. It is incumbent on me to understand that people make mistakes and that my whole experience is not under your control, only your interactions with me. As a customer I will always try to learn my waiters name and use it when I talk to them, I believe that this is just a matter of common courtesy. I smile at them and say please and thank you, as do my children and most of the people who I regularly dine with.

You are right, we are both people but in this instance we are not equal because I am paying the waiter for a service through his employer, this changes that relationship. You are also right about rude customers. If someone at my table is rude I will apologize to the waiter in front of the rude person hopefully shaming them into better behavior. I have also picked up a rude strangers tab who was berating a waitress over something she had no control over and told him he was being an ass and that since I had paid for his tab he should leave, which he did with a red face and slumped shoulders. My point is that there are bad (rude) waiters and bad (rude) customers. A waiter is paid to deal with customers but at some point his manager has to say to a rude customer please pay your bill and don't come back your money is not worth the grief of serving you. The tip was the customer’s way of saying your service did not measure up. Unfortunately more and more the tip is part of the bill so good and bad waiters get the same.

Maybe this is an American thing and we do have a different culture. One where it is our goal to recognize excellence in the work place as opposed to the EU countries who make me laugh when I read about labor demands the show an incredible sense of entitlement and a total lack of work ethic. We are not perfect in this but we haven’t swung nearly as far on the "it's all about me" spectrum as much of the old EU.

That's a great idea.

"Maybe this is an American thing and we do have a different culture. One where it is our goal to recognize excellence in the work place as opposed to the EU countries who make me laugh when I read about labor demands the show an incredible sense of entitlement and a total lack of work ethic. We are not perfect in this but we haven’t swung nearly as far on the "it's all about me" spectrum as much of the old EU."

Great point. When I was in Spain I found the waiters to have a perfectly balance of reservedness and politness. I love Spaniards. I never met one I didn't like (but for one guy who tried to pick my pocket!). The French though, sheesh. They lived up to their reputation. A number of waiter nearly ignored us and when we finally got their attention seemed put out that we interrupted them. They had other tables. Total classic Froggery.

I find that the Americans who complain about French rudeness are usually those who approach a stranger, not with "Bonjour, monsieur", but with "Hey you!".

Well, I don't say "Hey you!" to anyone, let alone when I'm travelling in a foreign country. I dress well (not in blue jeans, sneakers and a ball cap), learn a bit of the language so I can show some respect, etc. I'm a very good representative of the US when I travel.

No, Frogs too often live up to their snotty reputation.

It is my experience as well. That only applies to strangers though. I find that aquaintances are entirely different in attitude.

I don't necessarily fault the French too much. Most Americans don't act like Jesus to people who speak english badly. The French seem to act in similar fashion, except I think their reputation pre-judges their actions and makes it seem worse.

I've always thought that the basic reason the French and Americans don't like each other is because we are so similar. Both countries believe they are the prime pillar of Western civilization. Both nations think their shit don't stink.

I don't think that's true at all.

EarlyBird:

I've always thought that the basic reason the French and Americans don't like each other is because we are so similar. Both countries believe they are the prime pillar of Western civilization. Both nations think their shit don't stink.

The French are right in the perception that they were a pillar of Western civ - at one time everyone who was anyone spoke French. Acted French. It was the language of the nobility, and everyone from Ben Franklin to Cathrine the Great spoke French as a matter of course.

That was then. The 20th century belonged to the Americans. We made policy in our own hemisphere, often with guns - we manufactured a revolution in Panama and parked warships of the coast of Nicaragua and said 'do something about it.' Then, dispite our attitute of 'Europe's problem not ours', we marched in to the Great War, full of arrogance and pride against the Kaiser, and broke the stalemate. We did the same in North Africa, and Rommel made us pay dearly, but we learned how to fight that kind of war, and broke the back of facism. We were the Good Guys, the Supermen, the Captain America against the Evil Empire, the dread Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, grrrr. We went to the moon, we Rocked and Rolled, we had Elvis and Marylin.

That was then. We're still the major player we were in the last century, but I dont think anyone's as impressed now. We've done as much to set back the cause of democracy as we have to forward it. We're still the land of opportunity, but we guard it with a grudging sense of aristocracy. We're Americans, we're better than foreign folk. Theres an arrogance that we have, we've got it in our own country with each other, that we cant back up anymore overseas. I think people now expect us to behave, and show some manners, and we're just not used to being told that.

One of the best examples of an American in a restaraunt was the classic episode of Faulty Towers with the American demanding a proper Waldorf salad. The American was rude and at one point, almost (did he punch out Faulty? I forget) violent - but - Faulty was being his awful self, and completely screwing up the whole meal, and his browbeating tactics were useless against someone who wasnt British.

I expect service with a smile - I've worked in enough retail hell to know how difficult that is, but its part of the job. You get paid jack, the majority of customers are jerks, but its business. You say 'sir' and 'ma'am', you smile, and you call them pigfuckers on your own time. You behave like a professional because thats the Yankee work ethic. You develope an almost patholigical hatred of Christmas music, you think of new and painful places to shove that cellphone your customer is using in the checkout line, oblivious to the people behind them, but you ring them up with a smile and thank them for their business. Period.

Sure its fake, and yes, its anoying when a waitress calls me 'hon', or is chipper, or talks down to my kid - he's four, not a damned puppy. But then, I'm grouchy, I dont like cheer. When someone comes to my table, its a business arrangement - and I'm the guy with the money. I dont expect you to kiss my ass for that, I dont expect to fondle yours, but I expect prompt service (as prompt as volume allows) and I expect a friendly greeting.

I grew up with a European mother, who didn't move to the States til she was in her 30s. She consistently expressed shock and horror at how poorly Americans treat their working class - waiters, service people in general, anywhere, and everywhere. I learned from an early age that people are to be treated with respect, courtesy and humanity. Hence, I'm consistently shocked myself. That doesn't mean you don't deserve the same respect, as one being served, and she didn't put up with being poorly treated herself, but it's as simple as that.

Sometimes I think it just has to do with the tipping phenomenon and how that manifests in behavior, or sometimes a kind of pecking order paradigm, but I also think it just reflects an arrogance we Americans have that I've witnessed here as well as overseas.

Class issues are so complex.

Thanks for bringing your epiphany to the table, timezoned. It's a great discussion.