E-mailing Poetry With Another Copywriter

After years of writing words
For those I've rarely met,
Of shouting songs at walls
Shelved high with books,
Eva's words take space
Among my half-formed thoughts,
Tossed like seeds on frozen dirt.

I'll reply verse for verse:
Proustian memories silenced
From my own discarded past,
Now verse shrinks life to image.
What better way for me to find
Some counterpoint in
Eva's world and mine?

Ours: inner voices where
Souls make sense of life
As outer selves write words
For profit and for fame—
Scaffolding for hire,
Public dreams displayed,
Billboard messages at night.

Reading poems from Eva's life,
So like mine but not my own,
Reveals our interwoven themes
Not in story but in voice:
Whispered worlds: verse shapes
Suffering into grace, grace sparks
Ideas electrified in flight.

If I moulder, dreams deferred,
I'll still make time for Eva's song.
In our singing comes the chorus --
New life resounds with old:
Verse, response, verse response
In sequence, bold new poems are born
The common voice redeems its own.

--Elisabeth-- October 1, 2007

I like these lines very much, elisabeth:

verse shapes
Suffering into grace,

Indeed it does. Your work is growing -- this is much better than the earlier, more rhyme-heavy work I saw.

I like these lines also:

inner voices where
Souls make sense of life
As outer selves write words
For profit

Freed from the couplets, you have given this poem much more reality -- grounded it in the real world, in which we find real poetry.

While you're around, please do check out my top post on Smoky Joe's and Cutter.

Since you're new on the board, you may not have visited Smoky Joe's before, I hope you will do so. And I hope you'll think about participating in the upcoming Thanksgiving presentation, as well.

Angel - link below:

<link>

• Well, this is my first effort in free verse in a long time. It has given me freedom to play with ideas without having to shape them to the rhyme scheme. I'm sure my inability to handle rhyming couplets is a shortcoming on my part rather than a problem with the form itself. Think of the smartest raps or calypso...any suggestions of written poets who work in couplets would be helpful too.

  I love rhythm and song and rhyme and would like to be able to integrate them more successfully -- at least some of the time.

  Thanks for the supportive words. It helps to see what resonates with others. i'll check out your website but won't be around over thanksgiving,

You're a piece of work, Angel.

Drop some condescending bullshit like this:

Your work is growing -- this is much better than the earlier, more rhyme-heavy work I saw

and then invite her over for some Angel-hair poetry.

Jesus - where's Zeeb and Jack when they're needed?

Etiquette requires politness from you; I am under no such constraints.

Hi elisabeth, in case you missed it, your toppost "Blevins Gossamer Depictions" merited a checkmark from the almighty Freditor. (The checkmark and a token will get you on the subway, but still, it's nice to be recognized for one's writing.)

Very crafty poem you've written here -- in both senses of the word. Crafty/sly to write a poem about writing poetry while experimenting with free verse (good for you for being willing to try it). Crafty/well-made to write a poem musing about how to make sense of life in our inner voices as well as in our outer words (which, I'm guessing, is the theme of the poem).

Ours: inner voices where
Souls make sense of life
As outer selves write words
For profit and for fame—
...

Reading poems from Eva's life,
So like mine but not my own,
Reveals our interwoven themes
Not in story but in voice:
Whispered worlds: verse shapes
Suffering into grace, grace sparks
Ideas electrified in flight.

I particularly like "verse shapes / suffering into grace." Reminds me of a W S Merwin quote we were discussing here awhile ago -- that long ago, words were created

to say what could not be said.

And isn't that the mysterious paradox of language? -- it can't express the inexpressible and yet we insist it do so. (The original discussion centered around whether or not 9/11 could be fully understood in words.)

Anyway, I see from your reply to Angel that you still yearn to write rhymed couplets. My only comment is that there is a way to give form to a poetry w/o the use of rhymed couplets -- i.e. in the use of assonance, some alliteration -- in other words, in paying attention to the sound of language in ways other than rhyme. Besides, look at the lyrics of the great Leonard Cohen (everyone please bow their heads in awe of the man) -- which did not rhyme.

Good luck with whatever you ultimately decide to do.

MA

Good grief, elisabeth, I just noticed that Angel and I chose the same passages to comment on. Great minds, etc...

MA

ci-inc, I didn't see Angel's post the same way you did, but merely as a single post trying to include 2 different things -- a critique and a friendly invite to the latest version of her website (where she's been playing up the poetry of Cutter). She's been inviting lots of people to her site today to hear Cutter's poetry.

I'm reminded of that saying -- when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Or in your case, when you dislike someone, everything s/he says annoys you. Hope you can squelch the impulse. Lord knows, there's enough tension flying around this board as it is.

signed,
Mary (Mother Hen) Ann

Worth the price of admission for these lines alone:

"As outer selves write words
For profit and for fame—
Scaffolding for hire,
Public dreams displayed,
Billboard messages at night.

Reading poems from Eva's life,
So like mine but not my own,
Reveals our interwoven themes
Not in story but in voice:
Whispered worlds: verse shapes
Suffering into grace, grace sparks
Ideas electrified in flight."

******************************­**********

I think the ending is a little too 'tells too much' as opposed to 'suggests too much." And the title may be a little too clunky; is there another way to suggest "from one copywriter to another," with more graceful words? Your first four lines do a great job of describing the job of a copywriter, so ... ??

[& "shouting songs at walls" is just wonderful.]
I've been following the poems that you have put up here recently, Elisabeth, and "as with" (**) Angel, I like this one the most. But then I'm a free-verser myself, so it's a natural affiliation. Good work here and please post more. Thanks.
L.

(**) Winston tastes good LIKE a cigarette should,' do you remember all the fuss that caused? And by god, they changed the language with it. (For the worse, imho)

'the guys' just don't tone it down a bit, overall, on this issue. Their point, whatever it is, has certainly been made.

And I for one, find nothing condescending about Angel's comments about Elisabeth's poems. And as for ci-inc calling someone else's comments CONDESCENDING, oh dave, come ON, you have got to see the irony in that comment, non? I do. Read your own top posts a bit more closely sometimes, TNT. Thanks.

I selected the same group of lines, w/out having read yours or Angel's commentary. I also like Elisabeth's first four lines which so effectively capture the job / challenge of a copywriter. Another way to 'pay attention to the sound of language in ways other than rhyme' to use your words, is to use a repeating refrain -- either a la ballad style, which I have done & which comes off as quite musical, or as Angel did the other day in her wonderful poem where she says, several times and in several ways, She "wants to thank (the) someone who..."

Elisabeth is new here, c-inc/halitsky/nairobi IQ of 3/ Davey and whatever other demon you're channeling today.

She may not know about the website, and I wanted to make her feel welcome. Her post gave me the opportunity to invite her personally.

She is just starting to write poetry for posting, and I want her to feel included and a part of things. That's how civilised people act. I'm sure that's why the behaviour is unfamiliar to you.

You and your venomous crew, on the other hand, are only capable of spreading bile and venom, and I haven't seen a single thing you've ever posted that was even decent, let alone worth a serious read.

Smoky Joe's belongs to PFray. Elisabeth is a part of PFray now, and she is most certainly invited.

If there's a workshop in existence that hasn't exorcised you yet, I'd suggest you go there since Smoky Joe's bothers you so much.

Angel

Elisabeth, I do both. I have written song lyrics -- and I write poetry. Do you write songs? Maybe that's a way to get your rime on?

I also write in form on occasion -- there are two read on my website now.

I remember from your last post that you said you seem to wind up riming and it kind of takes over. I understand that much better than you know. I wrote in strict form for years -- it was a struggle to get out of it, but when I did, I found far more strength when freed of it.

You can certainly do both. I'm head copy for an ad agency by day. Your reference to writing for money really resonated with me.

I don't know what kind of copy you write. Advertising seems a natural for anyone who makes words do gymnastics in poetry, so that's where I wound up. Though I wrote legal documents for years to support my kids.

Angel

No. But you should perhaps be REstrained.

Angel

This is nice Elizabeth. Somday, maybe I can write a poem as nice as this. Angel, MaryAnn, Waltz , Cutter, Denny and Lunesta are very helpful when and if you need them. They have always been nice to me on the board and made me feel as though I was a part of things. Hope to get to know you better and thank you for letting us read your work today. It was nice. FW