enter the fray: our reader discussion forum
Search in:
Advanced
View:FlatThreaded
Page 1 of 3 (39 items)   1 2 3 Next >
Some second thoughts...
by agkcrbs
-3 Reply

To those Christians who imagine that God's commandment to multiply has somehow expired, the idea is just that: your imagination. Until God tells you so (and if he does, add it to your Bible), better not put words in his mouth. But, in fact, the prophets today have affirmed that God's will on the subject has not changed. The only thing awaiting those who eschew procreation is... exactly what they choose: an emptier world, an emptier life, an emptier soul -- a life full of the things that don't matter and lacking the things that do. On the other hand, having children, or creating life, brings a person closer to the Creator than any other thing. Creation is not an opportunity to be treated lightly by those who have it.

One of the problems I see with population control for sustainability is that it itself is not a sustainable practice, not in the developed world. As soon as our population shrinks, our economy shrinks, until to the point when our government, like some others already, has to start encouraging population growth again.

We also have to consider foreign relations. It's the numbers in China that give the Chinese such an economic advantage. Take away our people, contract our market, and we lose our geopolitical influence. Well, a less-extended America might not be so lamentable to some, but the more serious repercussion is that in the event of a major military conflict, our fists will be smaller than the fists of our enemy. We've made a lot of local concerns our business, yes; but what will it feel like if we can't intervene even when it's necessary? What if "The Greatest Generation" who fought off our once-enemies, the Germans and the Japanese, had been population-controlled?

Besides, what substance can we find in the claim that the earth can only support a certain number of people? The only argument offered is, "Well, ten billion people, twelve, fifteen billion people... it just seems like too much!" But six billion seems like a big number too, and here we are, still very spread out. In this country, only a very few of our cities are especially dense; the rest consist of miles and miles of one- and two-level residences, or little three-level apartments. It's ridiculous how much room we take up with so few people, especially when you look at places like Hong Kong and other Asian cities; and it shows (at least with regards to physical space; though the same principle applies to many of our essential resources) how much more room is left to be used. We're roughly the same size as China, but we have something like 23% of its population -- and the Chinese are heavily concentrated in cities too. Even China still has lots of room, lots of potential farmland, and so on.

Do we really want to be all crowded like China, though? Maybe not. But, when it's a question of human life, which most of us think has some kind of intrinsic value, then what gives us the right to deprive those future people of their existence? Is securing our own comfort, well-being, or benefit worth preventing other people from living?

If it is, we can say we have at least some understanding of the mindset of a murderer.

Still, there do remain some vital technological steps to be taken if we want to maintain our standard of living. It would really be nice if we could de-salinize or re-use water more efficiently, and unlock new energy sources, and of course, explore new waste management methods. These are all achievable goals that we're already moving toward, and we can get there faster by more innovatively educating our young people. In our schools right now are some of the people who will help banish this article to obsolescence.

Well, after all this is said, my thoughts return to the spiritual. To me it seems that complaining about population growth is like putting a band-aid on a cancer patient. By far, the things that will cause us the most misery in this world are social sicknesses and upheavals, not environmental ones; and right now, religious progress would help us a lot more than scientific progress.

Let's all pray for a larger heart, first.

Re: Some second thoughts...
by quillsinister

There is just so much wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin...

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Adrasteia

Yikes, now I have to be responsible for the rights of future people? How far into the future? Can I hold someone from the past responsible for my rights? I mean, I would have had more rights if there weren't so many people in this country. I smell an interesting lawsuit....

Re: Some second thoughts...
by quillsinister

I know! How dare you deny a potential future person their opportunity to exist. You fiend! We should all strive to have as many children as humanly possible as fast as humanly possible. Never mind income level, global resources, urban sprawl or any of that secular nonsense. Every time we miss an opportunity to have more children, we defy the Almighty Himself. Clearly, it is quantity of life that matters, not quality.

After all, the parts of the world with the greatest population density and highest birthrates are obviously the places where one feels God's love most keenly. One just has to go there and see the open sewers, lack of clean water and widespread malnourishment for one's self to truly appreciate it. If America is to be a truly blessed and prosperous nation, we must strive to keep pace with India, China and parts of Africa.

I hope that God can forgive a secular humanist like me for using his faculty of reason (presumably provided by said deity) to determine that what was good for the Hebrews three thousand years ago might not be what is best for us in the present.

So... I'm thinking a class action lawsuit. The People vs. Their Ancestors? It'll be great! ;-)

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Adrasteia

Absolutely! And how many children is enough children? Is having 15 enough? Shouldn't women just have kids until they drop dead? And after their child bearing years are past they should load up on hormones and pop out a few more!

And men! Let's not forget about the men. They should be making as many babies as humanly possible, right up until they die. Screw supporting them! The kids have the right to get rich.

Infertile women and men should be euthanized because they are anathema. They are a mistake mad by....by....by....God? No, they must be the devil's work and therefore should die.

Quillsinister wrote: "After all, the parts of the world with the greatest population density and highest birthrates are obviously the places where one feels God's love most keenly." Just ask Mother Theresa.

I'm with you on the class action lawsuit. I'll need to stock up on funds since I have exercised my God-given right, no, profoundly evil right not to procreate and I'm sure I'm going to be sued by future generations. I wonder if there will be more or less future generations than there are past generations. Some actuary will have to work that formula out.

This whole idea is a neocons dream. A new way to move money around. Instead of just between countries and between corporations and the wealthy in this time period money can be moved around between the past, present and future.

Re: Some second thoughts...
by quillsinister

I have the sudden urge to burst into a rendition of Monty Python's Every Sperm is Sacred.

Must... resist...

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Heleva
The same primary commandment you say xtains ignor from the Torah is also qualified with the concept of Tikkun Olam which is viewed as responsible stewardship of the world. That combined with the fact that when a pregnancy occurs the MOTHER's health and livelyhood take precedence over the potential human. It is viewed as reasonable to abort or prevent pregnancy until the situation allows one to raise a healthy human. xtians ignor a lot from the OSM.
Re: Some second thoughts...
by Heleva

Link: <link>

Every Sperm is Sacred

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed,
But,
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on.
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came,
Because...

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Children: Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Little Girl: Let the heathens spill theirs,
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Children: Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Mother: Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Men on toilets: Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
Women: If a sperm is wasted,
Children: God gets quite irate.

Priest: Every sperm is sacred.
Bride and Groom: Every sperm is good.
Nannies: Every sperm is needed
Babies: In your neighbourhood!

Everyone: Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
Undertakers: God needs everybody's.
Male mourner: Mine!
Female mourner: And mine!
Corpse: And mine!

Nuns: Let the Pagans spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
Statues: God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Everyone: Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaate!

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Adrasteia

Heleva:
The same primary commandment you say xtains ignor from the Torah is also qualified with the concept of Tikkun Olam which is viewed as responsible stewardship of the world. That combined with the fact that when a pregnancy occurs the MOTHER's health and livelyhood take precedence over the potential human. It is viewed as reasonable to abort or prevent pregnancy until the situation allows one to raise a healthy human. xtians ignor a lot from the OSM.

You actually read the entire thing? I was too busy trying to get pregnant to bother....

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Adrasteia

One more thing I've been meaning to address.

agkcrbs wrote: What if "The Greatest Generation" who fought off our once-enemies, the Germans and the Japanese, had been population-controlled?

agkcrbs, obviously you slept through God's greatest creation; nuclear weapons. We don't need an entire generation kill someone else's entire generation. So there.

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Heleva
You didn't say fuck it and just enjoy the sex?
Re: Some second thoughts...
by Adrasteia

Well, yeah. But then I thought about nuclear weapons....

Re: Some second thoughts...
by Heleva
Any man who can get you to orgasm like a nuclear explosion is a keep. Not sure you would want to breed with him but hey, that is the nice thing about sex, you can enjoy it!
Re: Some second thoughts...
by Thomas Paine

You are right. All those 14-15 year old girls, most of whom have been ovulating for several years should be fucking like rabbits and should already be carrying their second kid by now.

I guess those Mormon polygamists have it right after all -- marrying them off to older men who keep them knocked up as often as possible. After all, those 14-year olds are not really ready to raise the kids alone so their older sister wives can help.

Re: Some second thoughts...
by mashup3
quillsinister:
There is just so much wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin...
You have NO where to begin.
Page 1 of 3 (39 items)   1 2 3 Next >
View as RSS news feed in XML