Slate is the first to report on how small the protest really was. In Washington, if you get only 10,000 demonstrators, you are practically talking to yourself. Which these people were.

Since most of them are elderly, let them REALLY demonstrate their opposition to national health care by tearing up their own Medicare cards and then trying to find an insurance company that would take them. And never mind how they earned the benefit by working hard all their lives: in the first place, Medicare is an entitlement that need not be earned by any work at all...and in the second, the younger people are STILL working hard to pay for the Medicare program.

The only numbers not provided by the movement itself or its cheerleaders on Fox is 3,000 - 3,500.

And, some people might do well to take note, the AARP just endorsed the House health care bill. So much for pulling the plug on Granny, as Granny's own advocacy group just threw behind it.

Also, the AMA, the largest doctors association in the country? They just announced their backing of the House bill, too. So, again, so much for doctors being against national health care.

Of course, you won't hear the teabaggers or Fox News or anyone on that fringe of the political spectrum admit it.

Meant to say the only numbers I've heard, as I'm sure there are other numbers out there I've not seen or heard.

cassandra:

Slate is the first to report on how small the protest really was. In Washington, if you get only 10,000 demonstrators, you are practically talking to yourself. Which these people were.

Since most of them are elderly, let them REALLY demonstrate their opposition to national health care by tearing up their own Medicare cards and then trying to find an insurance company that would take them. And never mind how they earned the benefit by working hard all their lives: in the first place, Medicare is an entitlement that need not be earned by any work at all...and in the second, the younger people are STILL working hard to pay for the Medicare program.

Well i was there and guess what there were enough people there to fill a footbal stadium. Funnny how if it s a gay,antiwar,black protest,etc. you leftys embrace it with all you have. Here you have a group of poeple who on very short notice made it to D.C. to protest out of control government. Just imagine the numbers who because of WORK( something the left doesn't understand) were unable to show up. Reform is necessary. No one is saying it isn't. Complete take over is not wanted.

How is the government "out of control"?

There were 200,000 at a pro-gay rights rally just 3 weeks ago.

Why could "'real Americans" muster only 1/10th that number?

Sorry, my bad.

One-TWENTIETH that number.

As a lefty who mysteriously has a high regard for labor, laborers, ambition, and those with a strong work ethic, I agree that a "complete take over [of the health care system] is not wanted." Fortunately, no one is proposing that, least of all the House, the Senate, or the Obama administration more generally. It is flat-out dishonest to call increased oversight or a publicly run insurance system (which would essentially function as any other insurance system, just without the unnecessary expenditures for lobbying, public relations, and dividends to shareholders) a wholesale government "take over." Is anyone suggesting we nationalize hospitals or ban private insurers? Of course not. There are responsible and empirically sound reasons to be skeptical about current proposals for reform, but this language of socialism and "take over" misses them entirely. These are talking points, rhetorical excess, spin, and, when you get down to it, sheer manipulation and disinformation. If you want to oppose Democrats or Obama or government intervention or questionable spending or certain tax policies, that's fine by me, but please do us all -- that is, your fellow citizens -- the favor of opposing them from the standpoint of reality. Every time I hear the word "take over" I cringe. Are we really that manipulable? Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, and John Boehner frame it (with the help of industry-funded public relations firms), and millions start babbling mechanically in response. There is no "take over." Period.

"Also, the AMA, the largest doctors association in the country? They just announced their backing of the House bill, too. So, again, so much for doctors being against national health care."

So, the AMA is on-board? The AMA was on board with a "healthcare bill" before there was even a healthcare bill to endorse. Better to be on board and smiling for the cameras from the outset than to be thrown overboard.

Further, the AMA has only a minority of physicians as members. They certainly don't represent me or anyone I know.

Yes we need reform. You need to start paying your own way for routine stuff; no pre-existing condition refusals.

DvB

If the ABA (American Bar Association) came onboard for a Republican plan for tort reform...they'd be singing a different tune, wouldn't they?

Remember? According to them "Obama-care is going to put doctors out of business" or "Turn them into bureaucrats" or "Force them to kill the elderly from death panel requirements!!!!"...

odd thing for a doctors' association to endorse...isn't it??????

That's cute. If everyone starts "paying their own way for routine stuff", hundreds of thousands of Americans will stop getting the "routine stuff" done.

And when they become seriously ill, someone will have to pay. Will you volunteer for that one, Dork in the Box?

Conehead, we will have to take your worrd for the "football field" full of teabaggers, won't we.

No? We don't? You mean we can actually look at the video tape and see a straggling bunch of screwballs hanging American flags on the railings of government buildings?

BTW, does Bachmann work for FOX, or does FOX work for Bachmann? <link>

And, some people might do well to take note, the AARP just endorsed the House health care bill. So much for pulling the plug on Granny, as Granny's own advocacy group just threw behind it.

Well sure they do. This way they can sell more medigap policies <link> because Medicare will be defunded further and Medigap's competitor Medicare advantage <link> will be phased out. Its a win win for AARP.

Juvenile name calling, hmmm. If you don't care enough about your health to pay for routine health care, why should I? You want something for nothing and expect someone else to take care of you, and pay for it.

It's your health. Come on. Anything that's worth something is worth paying for. People that want to freeload will be the ones to blame when this fails. People with catastrophic problems are the ones who need help. That's INSURANCE. Pay for your own checkups. You change the oil in your engine, eh? Or do you stand by the side of the road wondering why your engine seized up?

I disagree with the tactics discussed in the article. However, so long as people want something for nothing, I don't care. So long as it fails. The house plan is not reform. It's change, but not for the better.

Do you really believe that everyone without insurance doesn't have it because they're either lazy, cheap or ignorant and don't want it?

And lets stop to make the distinction that health insurance is not health care, as insurance companies deny people care all the time, every day.

I gross 20k a year, I have to consider myself lucky that I'm single and no kids, as otherwise I'd be screwed and on govenrment money of some kind. I can go see a doctor anytime I want at the walk in clinic, only $100 a pop, and that's just to walk in the door, not including any tests or medication.

In this ecnomy, I'm lucky to have the shit job I have that offers no benefits what so ever except one week of vacation pay a year, that never goes up, or rolls over, because it's not even vacation, it's just pay in my check after my anniversary.

I've looked for insurance, can't afford anything decent. What I can afford I might as well walk into the emergency room as far as the deductibles are concerned.

I don't need insurance, I need access to care. This is the underlying problem with our system, we don't have health care, we have health care insurance. It's not the same thing, not even a little the same.

Health care should be a social issue, like the courts, fire and police protection, and even roads. Instead, we have capitalism as social policy. Health care is social policy, you can't leave social policy up to the consumer market for everyone to make money on. That's why health care is so expnsive, everyone in the pipeline but me makes money off of it.

The whole problem with our for profit health care system is it's for profit.