...is that when you cut away all the hysterical crazy bullshit, they have a couple of valid and entirely legitimate grievances.

Yes, the deficit is way too high. Yes, immigration needs to be controlled.

It's just that if you give these bastards an inch, they go absolutely bananas and want the whole mile. And 99% of the rest of their rhetoric is utter horsehit. They aren't real conservatives, for one thing. They're as eager to get their Medicare and other entitlements as anybody else.

"They aren't real conservatives, for one thing. They're as eager to get their Medicare and other entitlements as anybody else."

So if someone expects back from the system what's been taken from him he isn't "conservative?"

Yep. I'd even go so far as to say I support at least some of their 2nd Amendment position. Even if that's because I think we need to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves from them.

It's too bad they can't debate honesty or fairly, and that they're so dishonest and manipulative. But then, how do you get past those tactics and the craziness?

It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to me. It's my pocket that's being picked, not his.

But that gets to the heart of it. Medicare is now a right that they think shouldn't be taken away. So much for conservatism. They're all frauds, every single one of them.

Lots of people pay public school taxes but refuse to send their kid to one. Apparently, their willingness to eat that loss is just high enough to accept it and the additional cost of educating their child in a private institution. But when it comes to retirement, our repugnance for wealth redistribution doesn't equal our willingness to take part in it, which is why I'm convinced most so-called conservatives are full of shit.

"It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to me. It's my pocket that's being picked, not his"

I don't know about your "him" but mine paid payroll taxes for decades-- how do you figure the money is yours?

...or at least, everyone who's paid in via payroll taxes. The point is that some choose to opt out of a system that they disapprove of such as the public schools, but that few Conservatives are willing to be so scrupulous when it comes to Medicare.

No, wolf, this is where you're wrong. The government is not a mutual fund, and your taxes are not an investment of capital. It's not a quid pro quo arrangement. You don't pay in with the expectation of a profit, you pay in because you have to--everybody has to. Everybody has a grievance about the way their taxes are spent, including liberals.

This mentality that it's "my money" is a virtual guarantee for the perpetual continuation of all entitlements. See Medicare as a reference, a program that was once called evil socialistic medicine back in the 60's, but is now demanded by most all citizens on both sides of the spectrum.

"The government is not a mutual fund, and your taxes are not an investment of capital. It's not a quid pro quo arrangement. You don't pay in with the expectation of a profit, you pay in because you have to"

And you are frustrated because many of the people you identify as "conservatives" disagree with you on precisely this point?

Interesting.

No only about 52% pay federal income tax. The 48% who don't sit around and pray for someone to pay for their health care.

ckone:

No only about 52% pay federal income tax. The 48% who don't sit around and pray for someone to pay for their health care.

Most of the other 48% are too poor to pay taxes. Forgive them if they fail to celebrate that fact. And a large number of them are retirees who are too busy taking their entitlements to bother working and paying taxes.

But of course, I always find this a funny point anyway. Other than retirees who don't work, who in the hell are these people who pay no taxes? Apparently they make up almost half the population. But everybody I know works and pays taxes. Who are these people? Do you hang out with any? Students, I guess? Children? I know, the kids are so lazy these days. Oh for those glorious pre-liberal-FDR-takeover years when 7-year-olds toiled in factories like everybody else!

Wolf, conservatives who don't agree are exactly the kinds of "conservatives" that make up the bulk of the Screaming Teabaggers and the entire GOP. It's a formula for success for liberals.

BritBailey:

...is that when you cut away all the hysterical crazy bullshit, they have a couple of valid and entirely legitimate grievances.

Yes, the deficit is way too high. Yes, immigration needs to be controlled.

It's just that if you give these bastards an inch, they go absolutely bananas and want the whole mile. And 99% of the rest of their rhetoric is utter horsehit. They aren't real conservatives, for one thing. They're as eager to get their Medicare and other entitlements as anybody else.

Honestly, I don't think what motivates them is the deficit or immigration, as much as those issues do need addressed. I don't even think it's fear of health care reform. These are just people who are pissed off because someone they don't like won the election last year and they can't seem to handle it. In many ways, they aren't much different from liberals who spent the last eight years whining about how Bush "stole" the 2000 election. Well, except for that bizarro habit of hanging teabags from their hats. That's just weird.

thewolf05827:

So if someone expects back from the system what's been taken from him he isn't "conservative?"

I dunno about conservative. But it sounds like theWolf5827 is in favor of reparations for slavery.