Why do Republicans lie? About everything? They would rather tell a big lie, if the truth would serve them better.

They lied about their reasons for taking us into war, they lied about torture, they lied about outing Valerie Plame. Not just Bush...Cheney is being revealed for his part in destroying Valerie Plame, and putting her in grave danger, through the lies he told, while testifying.

Why do we continually let these jerks keep right on lying? Just because it is a part of their make-up, doestn't mean it should be tolerated, over-looked, or worse yet, forgiven.

It is time, in fact long PAST time, that they should be held accountable for their words.

The Valerie Plame story is here, even as it is becoming well known that Dick Dheney committed perjury when he testified to Patrick Fitzgerald. Not many get away with doing that in this old world, so why should he be any different?

Dick Cheney Lied About His Role In Valerie Plame Leak

""Why do Republicans lie? About everything? They would rather tell a big lie, if the truth would serve them better.""

Red, can't you defend your selection of president without calling the so-called other hand in your party a "LAIR?"

""They lied about their reasons for taking us into war, they lied about torture, they lied about outing Valerie Plame. Not just Bush...Cheney is being revealed for his part in destroying Valerie Plame, and putting her in grave danger, through the lies he told, while testifying.""

That administration everyone let fly past them, and shall I post the many Democrats that backed the Republican President 'Ninny" Bush? No one got their act together an impeached either one of the assholes and you now want to bring that up again. We should have a counter guard standing at the White House with nooses to hang all those that as you put it "LIE!"

""Why do we continually let these jerks keep right on lying? Just because it is a part of their make-up, doestn't mean it should be tolerated, over-looked, or worse yet, forgiven.""

Why just Republicans? Are the only ones that have lied to the American people?

""It is time, in fact long PAST time, that they should be held accountable for their words.""

Words mean nothing to those in congress. Promises hang around 95% of those politicians on the hill like used shit paper clinging to the bottom of a stadium user between the seventh and eighth ending rounds.

""The Valerie Plame story is here, even as it is becoming well known that Dick Dheney committed perjury when he testified to Patrick Fitzgerald. Not many get away with doing that in this old world, so why should he be any different?""

I recall this story and how much time we spent on it. It wasn't the only story out of eight years of disaster, and now we have a man in the same office who may not have been born in this country, and guess what most are doing about--nothing! Same old. same old bitching but nothing ever gets resolved. What most people have not done is check with their states about Obama's certification. If you do that ought to tell you something, but like Bush fat ass complainers never got around to doing anything and the slacker; the "shiftless kid;" as Reagan called him, wasted eight years of our time and tolls of obscene borrowed money. Now, Obama, a possible usurper, is doing the same thing that Bush did using us and our troops in a despicable way. It is not about black or white, but wrong or right, and his black follers are filing suits all over the place, and he has already been in office almost a year!

Seasoldier/This next party the politicians won't make I am almost certain.

Sea, the reason this is dredged up all over again is a) Because when some of us were pointing out as it was originally unfolding, that Cheney was LYING through his teeth, was ridiculed by the Republicans (on this board) as wild and absurd accusations. B) Seems the wheels of 'progress' grind so slowly, that the ACTUAL PROOF of our 'wild and absurd accusations' are just now coming out, complete with SOLID PROOF. Thus the reason I posted this 'old' story.

I'm sure that even you remember that in the very beginning of Bush talking war, there WAS Congressional opposition to that. The Bush bunch immediately swung into the 'Convince them one way or another' mode....their ace in the hole being repeated charges that those who didn't fall into line and go along, were UNPATRIOTIC. I don't know about you, but if someone tells ME that I am unpatriotic, that hits one hell of a nerve. How many politicians could endure such a charge, made public, in their next election bid? Damned few, if any, for that would be used against them over and over again.

Unity has always been a big part of the success of our country, and to come right out and oppose our leaders, is pretty risky business. The ones who stuck to their guns and didn't change their minds were like the Libs right here on the board...we were not running for our political lives, so we didn't HAVE to cover our ears, close our eyes, and turn the other way. We could, and we did voice our opposition, point out the very lies that were hidden deep where it was thought they could not be made public knowledge. Hurrah for whistle-blowers, and Fitzgerald's investigation leaked like a sieve....every thing oozing out confirmed exactly what we were saying. But that is where it stopped...seems that the common little ordinary criminal can and does get in a hell of a lot of hot water, for committing perjury, but if you are some high positioned politician, it is a whole different scenario. Executive privilege is probably the most bullet proof vest ever invented, and the republicans used it time and again.

If you think that this story is 'unimportant' now, then you are among those giving tacit approval of such.

To me this is far more important than the question of Obama's bloodlines and pedigree. I'm more interested in how he SERVES in the capacity of presidential duties, and how he leads us, than I am in the things you fault him on.

So far about the only credit being given to Obama is the fact that he isn't completely white, like that has a damned thing to do with anything. With a priority like THAT, and another priority of 'where' he was born, one would surely think that all the problems of this country had been successfully resolved, and that now we had to resort to such issues to keep us occupied.

Maybe it's time we rallied around the flag, and the REAL PROBLEMS we currently have...leave those 'prioritites' mentioned above, for boring times.

Certainly Republicans aren't the only ones who lie. But there seems to be a difference both in the type of lies and in the consequences for them.

For example, the Reagan administration lied about arming our enemies in Iran, and about secretly breaking a law in order to fund death squads in Nicaragua in an attempt to overthrow that nation's legitimate government. There were no consequences for the president or VP, who merely had to endure a polite investigation by a fellow Republican, and then all the conspirators were pardoned. GW Bush's administration lied in order to start a disastrous war, and they lied about their decision to betray a key American intelligence asset. There were no consequences for the president and VP, and the one person held to account for his role was immediately pardoned. Meanwhile, Clinton lied about a consensual affair and that was enough to get him impeached.

They lie because they get away with it.

The news media lets him get away with lies they never stop him when he makes any outrageous calm . Even when the journalist knows he is lying he does not stop him from lying he gives him MORE TIME so he can complete the lie and then that same person just lies again later on..

Dems seem to lack an instinct for the jugular. Perhaps it is because Dems actually are subject to the emotion of shame?

Or perhaps the Pug ethos truly is "victory at any cost".. whilst Dems seem most inclined to balance cost and benefits in an empathic sort of calculus.

But I really am most disposed to hearken back to your (?) earlier post series on the Parties' differing views of Government.. namely Opposition to ALL Government v. Acceptance of Government Processes, including Compromise . Or was that Genedio? Or even me? Anyway, we discussed it at length...

Jack

Republicans lie. So do Democrats. Anyone claiming that their party has a monopoly on virtue is setting themselves up to look fooloish.

A by-no-means-complete list:

Barney Frank - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman's Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

DNC - The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.

Sandy Berger - Democrat - National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger fined $50,000 for illegally removing highly classified documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.

Robert Torricelli - Democrat - Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.

James McGreevey - Democrat - New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.

Jesse Jackson - Democrat - Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.

Gary Condit - Democrat - US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..

Eliot Spitzer- Democrat - New York governor - resigned from office after being tied to a prostitution ring.

Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde - Democrat - the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts.

Daniel David Rostenkowski - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison.

Melvin Jay Reynolds - Democrat U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison.

Wayne Bryant - Democrat NJ state senator- was convicted was found guilty on all 12 counts against him including bribery and pension fraud.

Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison.

George Rogers - Democrat - Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison.

Don Siegelman - Democrat Governor Alabama - indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care.

John Murtha, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Otto Kerner - Democrat governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968 was jailed after the manager of two horse-racing tracks admitted to bribing the then- governor; charges were filed after Kerner left office he was convicted in 1973.

Dan Walker - Democrat governor of Illinois from1973 to 1977 served less than two years of a seven-year sentence for receiving improper loans a decade after leaving office.

Gerry Eastman Studds - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.

Hiram Monserrate- Queens City Councilman and state Senator-elect - who has claimed to be an advocate of victims of domestic violence - was arrested for breaking a glass over his girlfriend's face. Monserrate, 41, a former cop, won election to the state Senate as a Democrat in November 2008.

James C. Green - Democrat - North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997.

Frederick Richmond - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer - pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also - charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee - pleaded guilty.

Raymond Lederer - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000.

Frank Thompson, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison

Michael Joseph Myers - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980.

John Michael Murphy - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

John Wilson Jenrette, Jr - Democrat - U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison

Neil Goldschmidt - Democrat - Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.

Alcee Lamar Hastings - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges.

Marion Barry - Democrat - mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison.

Mario Biaggi - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts.

Lee Alexander - Democrat - Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison.

Bill Campbell - Democrat - Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts.

Frank Ballance - Democrat - Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation.

Hazel O'Leary - Democrat - Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration - O'leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours.

Lafayette Thomas - Democrat - Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison.

Mary Rose Oakar - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors.

David Giles - Democrat - candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.

Gary Siplin - Democrat state senator Florida- found guilty of third-degree grand theft of $5,000 or more, a felony, and using services of employees for his candidacy.

Edward Mezvinsky - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges.

Lena Swanson - Democrat - Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war.

Abraham J. Hirschfeld - Democrat - candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner.

Henry Cisneros - Democrat - U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI.

James A. Traficant Jr. - Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks.

John Doug Hays - Democrat - member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge. He was sentenced to six months in prison to be followed by six months of home confinement and three years of probation.

Henry J. Cianfrani - Democrat - Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison.

David Hall - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted and sentenced to three years in prison.

John A. Celona - Democrat - A former state senator was charged with the three counts of mail fraud. Federal prosecutors accused him of defrauding the state and collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from CVS Corp. and others while serving in the legislature. Celona has agreed to plead guilty to taking money from the CVS pharmacy chain and other companies that had interest in legislation. Under the deal, Celona agreed to cooperate with investigators. He faces up to five years in federal prison on each of the three counts and a $250,000 fine

Allan Turner Howe - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

Jerry Cosentino - Democrat - Illinois State Treasurer. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud - fined $5,000 and sentenced to nine months home confinement.

Joseph Waggonner Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 19 79. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute

Albert G. Bustamante - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Texas from 1985 to 1993. Convicted in 1993 on racketeering and bribery charges and sentenced to prison.

Lawrence Jack Smith - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida from 1983 to 1993. Sentenced to three months in federal prison for tax evasion.

David Lee Walters - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1991 to 1995. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor election law violation.

James Guy Tucker, Jr. - Democrat - Governor of Arkansas from 1992 to 1996. Resigned in July 1996 after conviction on federal fraud charges as part of the Whitewater investigation.

Walter Rayford Tucker - Democrat - Mayor of Compton, California from 1991 to 1992; U.S. Representative from California from 1993 to 1995. Sentenced to 27 months in prison for extortion and tax evasion.

William McCuen - Democrat - Secretary of State of Arkansas from 1985 to 1995. Admitted accepting kickbacks from two supporters he gave jobs, and not paying taxes on the money. Admitted to conspiring with a political consultant to split $53,560 embezzled from the state in a sham transaction. He was indicted on corruption charges. Pleaded guilty to felony counts tax evasion and accepting a kickback. Sentenced to 17 years in prison.

Walter Fauntroy - Democrat - Delegate to U.S. Congress from the District of Columbia from 1971 to 1991. Charged in federal court with making false statements on financial disclosure forms. Pleaded guilty to one felony count and sentenced to probation.

Carroll Hubbard, Jr. - Democrat - Kentucky State Senate from 1968 to 1975 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1975 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the Federal Elections Commission and to theft of government property; sentenced to three years in prison.

Joseph Kolter - Democrat - member of Pennsylvania State House of Representatives from 1969 to 1982 and U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1983 to 1993. Indicted by a Federal grand jury on five felony charges of embezzlement at the U.S. House post office. Pleaded guilty.

Webster Hubbell - Democrat - Chief Justice of Arkansas State Supreme Court in 1983. Pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges - sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Nicholas Mavroules - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1979 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud and accepting gratuities while in office.

Carl Christopher Perkins - Democrat - Kentucky State House of Representatives from 1981 to 1984 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1985 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud in connection with the House banking scandal. Perkins wrote overdrafts totaling about $300,000. Pleaded guilty to charges of filing false statements with the Federal Election Commission and false financial disclosure reports. Sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Richard Hanna - Democrat - U.S. Representative from California from 1963 to 1974. Received payments of about $200,000 from a Korean businessman in what became known as the "Koreagate" influence buying scandal. Pleaded guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

Angelo Errichetti - Democrat - New Jersey State Senator was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $40,000 for his involvement in Abscam.

Daniel Baugh Brewster - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Maryland. Indicted on charges of accepting illegal gratuity while in Senate.

Thomas Joseph Dodd - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Connecticut. Censured by the Senate for financial improprieties, having diverted $116,000 in campaign and testimonial funds to his own use

Edward Fretwell Prichard, Jr. - Democrat - Delegate to Democratic National Convention from Kentucky. Convicted of vote fraud in federal court in connection with ballot-box stuffing. Served five months in prison.

Jerry Springer - Democrat - Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.

Guy Hamilton Jones, Sr. - Democrat -Arkansas State Senate. Convicted on federal tax charges and expelled from the Arkansas Senate.

Daniel Flood - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1945 to 1947, 1949 to 1953 and 1955 to 1980. Pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge involving payoffs and sentenced to probation.

Otto Kerner, Jr - Democrat - Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968. While serving as Governor, he and another official made a gain of over $300,000 in a stock deal. Convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. Sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.

George Crockett, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan. Served four months in federal prison for contempt of court following his defense of a Communist leader on trial for advocating the overthrow of the government.

Cornelius Edward Gallagher - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1959 to 1973. Indicted on federal charges of income tax evasion, conspiracy, and perjury

Mark B. Jimenez - Democrat fundraiser - sentenced to 27 months in prison on charges of tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.

Bobby Lee Rush - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois. As a Black Panther, spent six months in prison on a weapons charge.

Bolley ''Bo'' Johnson - Democrat - Former Florida House Speaker - received a two-year term for tax evasion.

Roger L. Green - Democrat - Brooklyn Democrat Assemblyman. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for accepting travel reimbursement for trips he did not pay for and was sentenced to fines and probation.

Gloria Davis - Democrat - Bronx assemblywoman. Pleaded guilty to second-degree bribe-taking.

""Sea, the reason this is dredged up all over again is a) Because when some of us were pointing out as it was originally unfolding, that Cheney was LYING through his teeth, was ridiculed by the Republicans (on this board) as wild and absurd accusations. B) Seems the wheels of 'progress' grind so slowly, that the ACTUAL PROOF of our 'wild and absurd accusations' are just now coming out, complete with SOLID PROOF. Thus the reason I posted this 'old' story.""

I agree, and what I say is be quick to take a stand even if you don't know everything there is to know about a problem. Quick judicious decisions need to ring loud and then be pulled to the side for further investigation. What would have happened if, during a charge, the four man fire team does not adapt? If the team leader is shot and killed the assistant immediately takes over and so on. We can't allow these rouge agents to ever regain a seat if you expect to survive.

""I'm sure that even you remember that in the very beginning of Bush talking war, there WAS Congressional opposition to that. The Bush bunch immediately swung into the 'Convince them one way or another' mode....their ace in the hole being repeated charges that those who didn't fall into line and go along, were UNPATRIOTIC. I don't know about you, but if someone tells ME that I am unpatriotic, that hits one hell of a nerve. How many politicians could endure such a charge, made public, in their next election bid? Damned few, if any, for that would be used against them over and over again.""

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

""Unity has always been a big part of the success of our country, and to come right out and oppose our leaders, is pretty risky business. The ones who stuck to their guns and didn't change their minds were like the Libs right here on the board...we were not running for our political lives, so we didn't HAVE to cover our ears, close our eyes, and turn the other way. We could, and we did voice our opposition, point out the very lies that were hidden deep where it was thought they could not be made public knowledge. Hurrah for whistle-blowers, and Fitzgerald's investigation leaked like a sieve....every thing oozing out confirmed exactly what we were saying. But that is where it stopped...seems that the common little ordinary criminal can and does get in a hell of a lot of hot water, for committing perjury, but if you are some high positioned politician, it is a whole different scenario. Executive privilege is probably the most bullet proof vest ever invented, and the republicans used it time and again.""

The "LIBS right here on this board" don't clean their own house Red, while expecting perfection out of the CONSERVATIVES. All I see is a death spiral occurring.

Yes, the lesser individual is treated differently than the politician animal which is 100% wrong and should have never been allowed to stand.

""If you think that this story is 'unimportant' now, then you are among those giving tacit approval of such.""

Just because I disagree with methodology doesn't mean I live in one camp or the other and the person who attempts to assign me to one or the other is wasting his/her time.

""To me this is far more important than the question of Obama's bloodlines and pedigree. I'm more interested in how he SERVES in the capacity of presidential duties, and how he leads us, than I am in the things you fault him on.""

In other words, to hell with the Constitution! You sound like Bush... "The Constitution is just another goddamn piece of paper." Bush II

""So far about the only credit being given to Obama is the fact that he isn't completely white, like that has a damned thing to do with anything. With a priority like THAT, and another priority of 'where' he was born, one would surely think that all the problems of this country had been successfully resolved, and that now we had to resort to such issues to keep us occupied.""

You have been brainwashed until you no longer care to live by the Constitution. Unpatriotic? When you don't care "Where he was born," it tells me one, you care not what the Constitution says; and two, as long as you stick a person in there that fits your profile of WHATEVER means that he has to be above law like his predecessor Bush. I care who sits in that chair, but it does me little good to vote for the ONE PARTY, TWO PHILOSOPHIES nominee because a power greater than all of us has been allowed to select our nominees.

""Maybe it's time we rallied around the flag, and the REAL PROBLEMS we currently have...leave those 'prioritites' mentioned above, for boring times.""

Is that a way of saying "let sleeping dogs lie?"

<link>

Seasoldier/

Hell Zam Zam, you only have part of the list. It's a nose race between both parts of the ONE PARTY. Hahahaha

Seasoldier/Now add to that Obama and his mess he dragged along with him to power and you can multiply those numbers by at least 3!

It must have been you or Genedio. I agree, though, that Dems lack an instinct for the jugular. Look at the different tone between the Republicans in 2001, with a hair-thin legislative margin in their favor and no electoral mandate (Gore got more votes), and the Dems in 2009 (large majorities in both Houses and a resounding victory in the presidential election). The Republicans gleefully pushed through a radically large upper-class tax cut , and within a few years were pushing for more tax cuts and a war of choice, and questioning the patriotism of anyone who resisted. By comparison, the Dems are practically falling all over themselves trying to win even a little "bipartisan" support for their initiatives, even when they don't need it. The Republicans repeatedly threatened to "go nuclear" by eliminating the filibuster rules if the Dems didn't genuflect to them, while now the Dems are afraid to even use time-honored procedural tactics to get around the filibuster.

Occam's Razor would indicate that if the Dems never seem to go for the jugular, but instead always genuflect to the Republicans, it must be because these Democrats are in nature indistinguishable from Republicans. They take their campaign money from the same corporate top 1% donors, and they must deal with a mass media that is highly concentrated in ownership and which leans toward fiscal conservatism. If you look at Obama, notice where he got (and continues to get) his money, notice how he is treated by the MSM, and look at the people he has appointed to his cabinet, it all pretty much fits. What we have is one party with two heads. A good cop/bad cop situation. There is no more 'workers' party'.

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but I think it exaggerates a bit.

The differences between the Democrats and Republicans, while disappointingly small, aren't entirely superficial or cynical. It may come across as a good-cop/bad-cop routine, especially on economic matters (as opposed to the more meaningful social and military differences), but there are ways that they differ appreciably, even when it comes to the interests of workers.

For example, minimum wage hikes make a very real difference for workers, and Dems are the ones who push for them, while the GOP would happily let them stagnate indefinitely. Similarly, the government's willingness to really police labor standards (overtime pay, workplace safety) changes meaningfully between Republican and Democratic adminsitrations. And when it comes to organized labor, Democrats aren't as eager about undermining worker efforts as their Republican counterparts are. Moreover, on the rare occassions that we take a baby step towards the kind of worker rights that are commonplace in all other wealthy nations, it's not with Republicans pushing for it. For example, the FMLA may be a pathetically anemic substitute for the kinds of decent paid medical and maternity leave rights that workers get in nearly every other rich nation, but it's still a godsend for a lot of people, and the Clinton adminsitration had to fight for that with the GOP kicking and screaming every step of the way.

Tax policy also differs a bit. Whenever there's some new tax-cutting scheme that's clearly designed to give all or nearly all of its benefit to the wealthy (dividends and capital gains tax cuts, elimination of the estate tax, big decreases in the rates on the upper brackets), Republicans are behind it, while progressive tax cutting (EITC, and write offs that are phased out by income) almost always comes from the Democrats. And Democrats are occassionally willing to make serious efforts to pull down the unemployment rate, while Republicans may give lip service to such matters, but other than when the rate is extremely high (like today), they act like their real motivation is to keep unemployment high to make labor cheap.

So, I completely agree that the Democrats have been shamefully coopted by the monied interests in this country, and that much of the difference between them and the Republicans is window dressing. But I still think there are enough real differences to matter. And I think that's supported by the pattern of meaningful differences in actual economic results for the working and middle classes during times of Republican vs. Democratic ascendence. A guy like Obama may be a whore for the monied interests, but at least there are a few tricks he won't turn for them.

Well said..

Or, for the sloganeers amongst us.. A mediocre dog beats a splendid coyote (almost) every time, if the objective is to guard the henhouse.

When you say, "more meaningful social and military differences", are you referring to 'meaningful' in terms of size (distance between the Dem and Rep positions) or in terms of significance (effect on society)? I guess I might agree with the former and not with the latter. Economics has always been primary unless and until we are in a shooting war. I'll admit that raising the minimum wage is a benefit for those at or near the minimum wage who manage to retain their jobs. But with today's 9.8% unemployment and 17% underemployment, the conservatives may have a point that it is a deterrent to hiring. In any event, it is a less direct benefit to workers as a whole than shifting the tax burden back onto the wealthy and off the workers would be. Payroll taxes are still over 15%, as compared with about 10% during the 1960s. As for labor law, this is all very true, but somewhat irrelevant as it's all in the past. I don't see anything which Democrats are presently doing to better workers. My concern is with the contemporary crop of Democrats, the post 2006 congressional Democrats, and of course those in the Obama administration. I still see them helping the plutocrats much more, and the sums they are throwing around are ungodly. But maybe we should give the Obama administration more time?