To the mother with the crazy MIL ( and I am 99% on your side):

If you leave your kids at your MIL's house, then her rules apply. If you don't like the rules, then don't take them to the MIL's house. I think the crazy MIL was totally out of line here, and owes you AND the kids an apology, but she doesn't need your permission to discipline the children (within reason) while they are her responsibility. You chose to send them over there; you submitted to her authority. I'm not saying she can beat or otherwise abuse them, but yes, she's within her rights to put them in timeout.

Now, since you now know that she cannot be trusted to treat your kids the way you want them to be treated, don't send them over there.

The fact that she called you a "stupid girl" is a pretty clear sign that you and your husband need to be a united front and tell her that she either treats you with respect or she has no relationship with you, your husband, or her grandchildren. She sounds like a bully and you've got to squash that garbage, because it's not going to go away. Your kids deserve better than to be 3- and 6 -year old pawns in an emotionally-charged power struggle.

If the MIL feels she can only control the situation in her house by hitting and letting other people hit her grandkids, then they should never be in the same room with her unless the parents are present. They are NOT her kids and she must follow the parents' rules if she wants to see them. These people understand that hitting kids is both wrong and counterproductive, therefore their kids don't get hit. EVER. BY ANYONE. ********** ********** ********** ******** ********* ********** ********** ********* ********* ********** *********** ********** *********** ********** ********* ********** ************* Frankly, I don't know how the LW could be so calm about this (although I'm sure time has passed). Most of the parents I know would gleefully strangle ANYONE who laid a hand on their kids. If Gran can't agree on how the kids are to be treated, then she should never be left alone with them. Clearly she's a few bricks short if she thinks she can bully her son into siding with her and not have his wife find out.

Crazy MIL is lucky it wasn't me, because she'd never be allowed alone with my kids again after hitting them. And the "daughter's boyfriend" would be sitting in front of the police or children's services explaining exactly what a grown man who is a complete stranger was doing with his paws on my child.

For me, it's not a spanking issue, it's the Crazy MIL disrespecting Mom's explicit instructions to NOT discipline the kids.

I would call the cops on the friend who got in on the action. MIL is in loco parentis. The daughter's boyfriend is just a guy who beat children.

here! here! cactusgal. Except I would have called the cops on both of them. I'm not above calling the cops on my MIL, just ask my former MIL - lol :P

Laini26:

If you leave your kids at your MIL's house, then her rules apply. If you don't like the rules, then don't take them to the MIL's house. I think the crazy MIL was totally out of line here, and owes you AND the kids an apology, but she doesn't need your permission to discipline the children (within reason) while they are her responsibility. You chose to send them over there; you submitted to her authority. I'm not saying she can beat or otherwise abuse them, but yes, she's within her rights to put them in timeout.

The issue wasn't really anything the grandmother did punishment-wise (and the letter writer said as much) but that a stranger who doesn't even live there got involved. Not only is that completely inappropriate, it's also simply bizarre. You're visiting somebody else's home (not even a blood relative) and you end up spanking their grandkids who you apparently haven't even met before? It's impossible to come up with a string of events that could lead to something like that.

I love the complete absence of any common sense displayed in this posting. The answer depends entirely on the definition of "hit".

What new age nonsense is it that granny should let Mom handle any discipline issues? Have we turned into that much of a bunch of whiners that the kids are going to mis-behave and then five hours later are going to (possibly) hear about it from somebody who wasn't there (i,e Mom)?

You all want to call the cops for what was probably standard parenting thirty years ago (which you all seemed to survive in one piece)...and oh, the drama surrounding the boyfriend...as if we aren't way worse off because parenting (which took a village) now is the sole responsibility of one or two people who can't handle anything resembling real life happening to their precious little offspring.

If they whacked the shit out of the kids, that's another story...but I suspect that Mom is yet another helicopter parent who wants to swaddle the little shits in bubble rap for the next twenty years until they grow up to be entitled piece of shit adults who think the world owes them everything and can't understand why sticking your hand in the oven is a bad idea.

I deal with the results of this kind of parenting every day...they won't file because it's beneath them...they want to be CEO on day three...they don't understand why we won't pay them to spend six hours on Facebook all day...

Grandma spanking (is "popping" the same as spanking?) the kids - probably needs a conference about what the parents (who have first authority on how the kids are disciplined, at their own house or anybody else's) want the Grannie to do in the event of misbehavior. An unrelated man visiting the Grannie's house "popping" the child? OH, HELL NO!

Rantguy, thirty years ago, did you never hear the phrase, "Wait til your father gets home!"?

therantguy:

What new age nonsense is it that granny should let Mom handle any discipline issues?

It's generally considered rude to discipline someone else's children without permission.....

therantguy:

You all want to call the cops for what was probably standard parenting thirty years ago (which you all seemed to survive in one piece)

I am 30. My parents never hit me. I turned out just fine. And you certainly can't tell me that standard parenting 30 years ago involved allowing non-family members to wallup someone else's children.

therantguy:

as if we aren't way worse off because parenting (which took a village) now is the sole responsibility of one or two people who can't handle anything resembling real life happening to their precious little offspring.

A good sign of old age is that you whine about kids today. Soon you'll be shouting "Get off my lawn!" and shaking your fist ineffectually at the neighborhood kids. People have been whining about children since the dawn of time. Kids today are fine. Just as they were fine when you were a kid and the "greatest generation" whined about how bad you guys were.

therantguy:

I deal with the results of this kind of parenting every day...they won't file because it's beneath them...they want to be CEO on day three...they don't understand why we won't pay them to spend six hours on Facebook all day...

Then obviously your HR department is completely useless because there are plenty of hard working people, both young and old, looking for jobs out there.

Actually, her rules may not apply as to corporal punishment. The parents can generally use corporal punishment within reason but that does not necessarily mean that every person who watches the child can.

Hey Rant Guy! I'm 67 years old and no it never ever was thought that it was acceptable for a complete stranger to spank one's kids.

They did have pedophiles and plain sadists in the olden days too, and why did the grandmother request to have the kids just at the time when her male guest was there? And why wasn't the motive for the spanking explained but it was taken for granted that it didn't require any explanation? Or do you hate kids so much that you believe they should be spanked whether or not they did something objectionable?

Sheesh! I'm sure glad I didn't have a father like you and my that my own grandkids don't have a grandfather like you (they wouldn't stand for it,anyway).

TheRantGuy: "What new age nonsense is it that granny should let Mom handle any discipline issues?"

What do you mean "let"? Grandparents don't have the legal or moral authority to "let" or make the kids' mother do anything. Actually, I have to assume you don't have grandkids. The joy of being a grandparent is that you can enjoy your grandkids without worrying about their upbringing. There's nothing new in that. The relation between grandparents and grandchildren has always been one of complicity and playfulness, and of course the unique sort of teaching only a grandparent can do.

Kati: "Sheesh! I'm sure glad I didn't have a father like you and my that my own grandkids don't have a grandfather like you (they wouldn't stand for it,anyway)."

I meant to say of course that the parents wouldn't stand for it, not the little kids. Children are helpless when it comes to standing for themselves. Yes times have changed but child abuse was unfortunately as prominent then as it is now....