Why has there been so little public outrage over the new Washington 'normal' of minority rule? Its only in some Superman comic Bizarro World that 41% beats 59% in a democracy.

The U.S. claimed to have invaded Iraq to bring "the fruits of American-style democracy". Six years later we instead see a radical 'Sunni obstructionist' congressional minority playing dog-in-the-manger in Washington. Iraqi politics have been imported to our shores. I'm reminded of the often-repeated 'frog in the heating pot story'. Doesn't anybody realize how far down a very bad road this country has gone?

Doesn't anybody realize how far down a very bad road this country has gone?

I do, and I'm plainly not the only one. But what can we do about it?

I don't mean, "what can congress do about it?" That one's easy: eliminate the filibuster. Not that I think the senate will do that.

No, I mean what can we do to get our government under control? How can regular people force a change in federal policy? I don't have a real answer to that one.

I've been thinking a lot about secession lately. I'm in Illinois and I can't help feeling we'd be a lot better off if we cut ties with the feds. Illinois legislators are largely self-serving but they don't seem as ideologically hidebound as national legislators. Independence would allow us to get away from the war-mongering, away from the lopsided trade arrangements, and away from the monstrosity that is the internal revenue code. And we'd have real health-care reform for sure.

What about the rest of you? Should your state secede?

Should a state secede? I haven't heard any serious discussion of secession since the early 1990s, when you would see articles pop up in the press periodically regarding secession. Though with the bombing in Oklahoma City in 1995, most of the press I'd seen on this topic disappeared.

There's a lot of total disaffection with the federal government in many states, particularly in the South and Southwest, but I don't know if secession is an option that has any real measure of popular support at this point in time. And even if the popular support was there, I'm not sure that any state would be willing to lose their federal funding, or risk the wrath of the federal government by seceding.

And wrath, there would be. Most likely martial law would be declared by the federal government, troops would be moved in, and the state's governor and state legislature would be arrested. Even if the federal government did nothing though, secession, and the subsequent loss of federal funds would create an extreme financial hardship for the state that did leave the Union.

That being said though, I personally favor secession.

On the one hand, assuming that a state's legislature voted to leave the Union, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents a state from leaving the Union. But on the other hand, history vividly demonstrates that there is also also nothing to prevent the federal government from illegally invading a state that does opt to leave the Union, and forcing it back into the fold.

Secession is probably not a realistic possibility at this point in time, though with the blatant corruption that permeates government at the federal level, that sentiment could change.

Really not a good scenario any way you want to look at it.

But then, neither is tolerating the heavy-handed arrogance and gross incompetence of the federal government.

Count me as a yes.

Don't most of these "secessionist" types ALSO support the "War on Terror"?

How do we pull that off...with 50 individual "countries"!?!?!?!?!??

MikeyD:

Why has there been so little public outrage over the new Washington 'normal' of minority rule? Its only in some Superman comic Bizarro World that 41% beats 59% in a democracy.

The U.S. claimed to have invaded Iraq to bring "the fruits of American-style democracy". Six years later we instead see a radical 'Sunni obstructionist' congressional minority playing dog-in-the-manger in Washington. Iraqi politics have been imported to our shores. I'm reminded of the often-repeated 'frog in the heating pot story'. Doesn't anybody realize how far down a very bad road this country has gone?

The founding fathers were afraid of true democracy. They thought that the ignorant masses could not govern themselves effectively.

Consider:

According to the Federal Constitution there is no right to vote for President.

Until 1913 Senators were not elected by popular vote.

Until 1920 women could not vote.

I fail to see how we have gone "down a very bad road". When the trend has always been toward more democracy not less.

Oldmanriver, why should I have to leave my home because of terrible government policy? I haven't done anything wrong, so why should I be punished? Rather than running away, I'd like to improve the situation here.

The founding fathers were afraid of true democracy. They thought that the ignorant masses could not govern themselves effectively.

I think history's on their side. Simple democracy = mob rule.

Lets just use educational levels to determine who gets to vote, college grad or better.

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That gets Obama elected 53% to 45%, about the same as the general election, but you probably dont like that metric, now do you?

You don't understand our Constitution whatsoever. The point isn't to pick an elite that will govern. It's to balance competing smaller jurisdictions against each other. The entire point ISN'T to just pick one simple figure - 53% want it, it happens. It's to have a whole multitude of differently elected groups that have to come together for something to happen. 60% of the House wants something? Doesn't matter at all if 55% of the Senate doesn't. etc

I think if you looked, not that hard, you'd find conservatives who think that expanded sufferage, even back to the Jacksonian era and the elimination of the requirement to be a property owner...was a bad idea.

S'why the love affair with all things "as the Founders wanted"....it would mean white, male, property owners were the only ones allowed to vote and hold power.

That's no coincidence given the demographics of the Right these days.

I have a feeling, you despicable little slug, that you're going to find that the demographics of the Right are quite a bit broader than you think, at the next elections.