Very insteresting. I'm always amused at the use of the definate article. For some reason non-native speakers' mistakes using it crack me up. Now, my little corner of expetise is Russian and other Slavic languages. True, the phrase "The Ukraine" was used and is still often used in the West. The mystery here is the origin of this term because it was in all likelyhood coined outside of Imperialist Russia. Modern Ukrainians are sometimes offfended by "The" in the reference to thier now-independent nation. The implication is that "the" indicates that thier land, culture, language, etc. is made linguistically subserviant to Russia, who it is assumed added that definite article to indicate that Ukraine is part of an empire, a borderland as the Slavic root word implies (krai + U, a preposition in many Slavic languages menaing near or by). The problem is that Russian and Ukrainian DO NOT HAVE DEFINITE articles. There is no "The Ukraine" in the Russian psyche becuase there is no "the" (no "a" either). There are modifiers such as "ta" (masculine "tot", nueter "to" and plural "te"), but you won't ever find Ukraine refered to in this way, not in modern Russian and not in the Russian of Pushkin. The preposition itself might offend (I'm not a native speaker but pretty close), so who then in the English speaking world decided to make it "The Ukraine"....I blame the British, notoriously poor in foreign langages:)

If 'U' is near or by, what is 'Krai'?

Honestly? No definite or indefinite articles? They just let context or other specifiers determine whether you mean some or other, or one in particular? I've never understood the Brits' use of holiday (She's on holiday this week), hospital (I'll be in hospital till tomorrow), future (In future, don't use pencil) ... with no article at all. They seem right that the article is superfluous, but it still sounds terrible to my ears.

Krai is a root/word meaning region or territory and the idea of an edge (material for exmaple). Modern Russian uses it in both ways: the edge of something or a place as in "moi rodnoi krai" (my native land). In modern Ukrainian krai means country or nation. So, using one preposition (u) for Ukraine could imply the edge of something larger (i.e. the Russian Empire) or in the case of v (in) inside of something in its own right.

Yes, modern eastern Slavic languages do not have articles (I'm not familiar with western Slavic like Polish or Croat). Context is very important, but there are other modifiers that make things more specific.

"or in the case of v (in) inside of something in its own right" ... what's the v doing? Vkraine?

...in the German language it is also Die Ukraine. 'Die' being the feminine 'the'.

@Tracker - what sounds even worse to my ears is the way the Brits DO use a superfluous article in cheering on a sports team. "Go The Wasps!" or "Go The Falcons!"

Really!? Ha! I didn't know they did that. Now that you say it, there's a line in a movie (that I can't at the moment name), but the line goes "Hello the house!" ... said as a way to invite someone in the house to come out (I think the guy hollering was drunk). Think that's the same sort of use?

Yeah, I suspect it was.

"v" is the prepostion for "in" as opoposed to "on" ("na"). v Ukraine in contrast to na Ukraine. There is a similar Russo-Ukrainian "conflict" with the prepostions to express "from" Ukraine. Modern Ukrainian speakers would use "iz Ukraini" as opposed to the traditonal Russian perspective of "s Ukraini" that reflects the idea of coming down from or from the edge of something. To native speakers there might be some "imperialism" in these pain in the ass prepositions, but the question remains: who the hell started using the definite article for Ukraine when neither language has definite articles.

For the record, modern Ukrainian and Russian are very close; they share a common origin and culture whether the two parties want to admit that or not. The grammar is almost identical, the alphabet is only slightly different, and 25-35% of modern Ukrainian words are identical to Russian and most of the rest share common roots making it pretty easy for even this non-native Russian speaker to read Ukrainian without too much problem. Geography and history have made some "cute" differences. For example, tobacco in Russian is the recognizable "tabak", but in Ukraine it's called "tyuntyun", which seems to me to be of turkic origin. That being said, Ukrainian has regional differences more stark than anyhting seen in Russia as vast as it is. Western Ukrainians speak differently and seem to use a lot of Polish words, and words of old Slavonic orgin that have fallen away in other areas and within other Eastern Slavic languages, etc.

I see. Hey, thanks for writing so much. I think reading your posts is a quick way to get a substantial concept of the place. !!! Thanks!