Obesity is a self inflicted injury - albeit with exceptions. There have always been fat people due to one reason or another, but not like today. So, alcoholism is also a problem, but am I expected to accomodate alcoholic behavior in public? Why should I do the same with obese people? Ever sat next to a fat person on an airplane? How about other pubtran?

I will oppose any subsidy of fat people, and of those industrial organizations that create them, such as the subsidized HFCS producers. Don't like the penalty? Lose a few pounds.

Yeah, fat people suck. So do greedy people. We need a greed tax too. And also something against meanness. There is no reason for anyone to be mean. Tax the crap out of the bastards.

thats mean, you owe me five bucks.....

Hey! you are getting greedy, you owe me four bucks...

If people's behavior is costing other taxpayers more than these people can be taxed (penalized) for their behavior. I'm surprised by your bogus sarcasm about a greed or meanness tax.

For example, people that don't drive carefully are penalized. This is reasonable and logic since they are a danger to society and they cost society more. If taxpayers are responsible for societies healthcare than taxpayers have a right to penalized those that cost society more due to behaviors that are under the control of the person (NOT gender, age, or genetic factors but behaviors that can be modified).

Damn, I owe Logic- 101 and reality-based $9.

Lucky I skipped that Snickers Bar for lunch or I'd owe Jazz Guitar another few bucks.

Jazz I reserve the right to snicker at the ridiculous situations that living in a modern society places us, no matter how justified. Extra charges for being fat are just too juicy to ignore.

Anyway, as I argue in other threads, insurance companies currently have their little actuarial experts working feverishly, charging people more money for the sins of being young or male or living in New Jersey, etc. Fat penalties belong in the same category. Just a part of modern life.

Haven't you heard of the Johnny-Come-Lately tax? You owe me three bucks.

But if health insurance reform actually works and we achieve something near universal health insurance, the sample of the insured will be so large that it will all work itself out. Each insurer will have a range of customers from the very healthy--for whom they will likely pay out very little--to the very unhealthy--for whom they will likely pay out more.

But don't feel sorry for the lice in the insurance bidness; they will rig the system so that they make a pile of money.

I'm a director of medical data and my job is to ensure these little actuarial experts get quality medical data to study. Man, these expects are a pain in the ass!

Again, I don't believe factors one cannot change like age and gender or genetics should be factors but only behaviors that people can change, like living in New Jersey!

You would think that being fat was punishment enough. Americans have such a terrible bias to blame the individual over the society. If it was all the individuals' fault, then that would mean that America has the laziest people on the planet - that is why they are also the fattest. They are also much more eager to shoot people that most other people in industrialized nations. That has nothing to do with easy access to hand guns.

Of course if being fat is genetic than they are NOT to blame but if due to sitting around and eatting too much then the fat person is to blame. Shouldn't people be responsible for their own behavior?

What is going wrong with America is no one wishes to be responsible for THEIR own behavior. Who do you blame? Fact food companies? Companies that make soda or cookies? BS.

America has gotten lazy and it is time we admit this. I life in a place where it is very nice to walk and do so each late afternoon. I see the same 3 or 4 people all the time. Where are the rest of the people? Watching TV! Really face reality. The 'I don't have time' is just a BS excuse for most people. No one makes someone eat poorly.

So, we are not lazy, stupid, gluttonous and insanely homicidal as individuals; we are lazy, stupid, gluttonous and insanely homicidal as a society?

Why can't they both be true!

I'm fine with incentives as long as EVERYONE gets or punished for EVERY lifestyle-related medical need. That means if you went skiing, your copay for the broken leg costs more than if you simply took an unanticipated fall. If you're a non-smoker (and can prove it) then your lung cancer treatment copay gets discounted -- but the discount is less if you willingly share a home with a smoker.

How about this? Before anyone is penalized, they are entitled to be tested -- for free -- for every known medical factor that could exonerate them of bad lifestyle choices. Innocent until proven guilty. What could be fairer?

Or are you going to simply look at my size-20 ass, assess the fine, and put the burden of proof on me to demonstrate at my own expense that my thyroid isn't working quite right?

It starts to become a cruel mockery when, for example, a diabetic is given a drug that causes weight gain and then punished for their weight.

Before judging that person on pubtran, people should take heed of the story of the woman (on TLC I think) who suffered more than ten years of doctors' lectures, diet advice, weight discrimination and associated misery until finally her pituitary tumor was diagnosed and surgically removed. She could have been spared all this if the first or second doctor she consulted had been willing to do a little digging instead of judging. Finally a weight loss specialist believed her about her lifestyle.I don't have this problem, but my thyroid issue was never discovered until my OBGYN and fertility doctor started wondering if my blood pressure, weight, infertility and tendency to feel cold might be connected.

You smug skinny people should welcome this free testing. If you're right and every fat person is just a lazy, gluttonous liar, then you'll be VINDICATED and you'll be newly entitled to heap on the abuse and judgment. The fatties, in turn, will be forced to admit their scam. And if it turns out there's something to the "excuses" you should be delighted that the store of medical knowledge becomes more complete, and more people will receive the help they need.

Win, win for everyone!

Sounds like it to me.