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Doesn't gallop but trots nicely
by richard

Good descriptive poem. Nice imagery. Pleasant bucolic scene. But poet should have added

stanza about the horses being sent to Mexico, slaughted and winding up as a

a McSpecial

Re: Doesn't gallop but trots nicely
by CutterMcCool

There are a lot of beautiful poems ("A Blessing" by James Wright comes to mind first) about horses. This is one of them.

But, as you point out, there doesn't seem to be much "deep meaning" there. Except perhaps that horses, despite being anti-entropic lifeforms, prefer entropy: leave the gate open and they will wander. That gates are unnatural, life likes to spread out. ("Something there is that does not love a wall / that wants it down.")

Overall it smells a bit like the cliche of "wild horses." "They are indebted to no one"? Sounds nice but untrue -- they are indentured to their owner. Should they cease to provide whatever it is the owner keeps them for, they will lose their grazing grounds, food supply, and be terminated.

Nobody entrapped in civilization, whether man or beast, is that free.

More here than meets the eye
by robusto

I disagree about the cliche aspects of this poem — and believe me, my cliche detector is primed and ready whenever I see a poem about pets of any kind. Only once did the alarm start to sound even faintly, though (I rather wish the poet could have found a substitute for "dewy field"), and by and large the images and choices of wording are precise and necessary.

I think what is fresh about this poem is that it gets at something beneath the cliches: horses, even though their beings have been appropriated by human beings, remain in essence wild creatures. Our idea of horses has become a kind of conceit, and we think of them as part of our world, yet they are not. When you say "Nobody entrapped in civilization, whether man or beast, is that free," you are exactly right. But you miss the fact that despite their circumstances, horses are that free. They don't choose their lives: given a locked gate, they remain; leave it open, they wander free. That impulse to wander free is something you can kill in a human being, but not in a horse.

Too often we interpret animal behavior in human terms, and that is when poems get cloying and cutesy and, yes, condescending. Rachel Richardson takes the pathetic fallacy and turns it on its head. Look here, it says: if you want to appreciate a horse (or anything else, for that matter), first you have to edit yourself out of the picture.

walk, don't run
by MaryAnn

Rob, I very much like your comment about Richardson leaving herself out of the picture and avoiding the pathetic fallacy. But I want to expand a bit on this --

But you miss the fact that despite their circumstances, horses are that free. They don't choose their lives: given a locked gate, they remain; leave it open, they wander free. That impulse to wander free is something you can kill in a human being, but not in a horse.

What I liked about the poem was the dreamy mood – it’s night, moonlight “lights the gravel white,” the horses are just standing around “scattered all over the road / under the stars, directionless…. By morning a man will find them / under the low trees by the river / or in the flower beds near town.”

It’s not like these horses feel a need to run away; they don’t “need” anything”; they don’t run, they just walk away; they are totally self-possessed (to indulge in a pathetic fallacy).

As you say, they just have an impulse to wander free – the most natural thing in the world, summed up brilliantly in the last lines –

…………………….They walk
because night stretches out, and there is a road
and someone has opened the gate.

I also like Richardson’s line breaks, especially between stanzas.

That impulse to wander free is something you can kill in a human being, but not in a horse.

Postscript -- What about prisoners who find a cell door open? Would their impulse be to wander around until they were found the next morning, or would it be to get as far away as possible?

That's why I said the horses are totally self-possessed. They can accept whatever comes their way.

civilization and its discontents
by CutterMcCool

Haven't read "Civilization and Its Discontents," but therein (my rudimentary understanding is) Freud argues that the root cause of human unhappiness is the social contract. Repressing our wildness, if you will, in exchange for societal conveniences.

That impulse to wander free is something you can kill in a human being, but not in a horse.

Some might counter that that impulse is more easily killed in, or bred out of, a horse than a human. Otherwise humanity wouldn't have so many nomads (tramps, hippies, gypsies, native tribes), adulterors, and (as Freud has it) discontents. While a pet horse, like most dogs, if it runs off, likely will find its way back home. Home being wherever it is fed. Animals (humans included) prefer to be fed than free. (Anybody who's seen a dog beg for hours for scraps, when it could be running around in the backyard, know this.) That's the source of the old proverb, "the way to a man's heart is through his stomach." His heart may long to be free, but feed his belly and he'll never leave you.

Civilization, like the (absentee) owner who keeps the horses in "The Horses," feeds us, so we are loyal to it. No matter how much it abuses us by other means.

Re: civilization and its discontents
by slippedvoussoir
Rather than Freud, I thought of Plato. The problem, I think, is that some want to read this as prescriptive poem, that we need to be more like the horses in their freedom or lack thereof. For me, the author's goal was to capture some essential character of horse-ness and to present it to us. This is a kind of freedom, only insofar as it is an indifference to human activity. "Hey the gate's open? Let's go see what's going on over there." The horse doesn't have any complex notions of capture or escape or goals. Its perfectly content to be a horse. I don't think there is any lesson for us humans in the horses behavior, unless it is to embrace human-ness the way that horses have embraced horse-ness.
Re: civilization and its discontents
by CutterMcCool

Elsewhere MaryAnn wrote:

However, I do think this poem does more than describe a scene; I think it also infers the dignity of horses. They don't need to run away because their "freedom" is an internal thing, not something defined by whether a gate is open or closed.

Seems this poem could be read as asking this question: why don't the horses run away? (Above I suggested a possible answer.)

What stands out most in the poem is this line: "They have no debt to anyone." Which in the context of its stanza reads:

under the stars, directionless, blowing warm air
from their nostrils. They have no debt to anyone.
Who knows how long they've stood
there, askew in the night, shuffling

This might suggest that the poem's answer to the question, why don't they run away, is because "they have no debt to anyone." They have nowhere to go, owe nothing to anybody, so they'll just hang out a while.

Is this to suggest that (if the horses are stand-ins for humans), if given freedom from debt (thus the need to work), humans would just hang out and munch on mistletoe (roll doobies)?

Not sure if that's a serious question but its there...if (big if) the horses are symbols.

Re: civilization and its discontents
by robusto
Discontent is a human construction. Horses just do what they do. They not "like" their present circumstances, but they don't get all Freudian about it.
Re: civilization and its discontents
by MaryAnn
I agree completely with your post, slippedvoussoir.
"The Weight" by Linda Gregg
by MaryAnn

THE WEIGHT by Linda Gregg

Two horses were put together in the same paddock.
Night and day. In the night and in the day
wet from heat and the chill of the wind
on it. Muzzle to water, snorting, head swinging
and the taste of bay in the shadowed air.
The dignity of being. They slept that way,
knowing each other always.
Withers quivering for a moment,
fetlock and the proud rise at the base of the tail,
width of back. The volume of them, and each other's weight.
Fences were nothing compared to that.
People were nothing. They slept standing,
their throats curved against the other's rump.
They breathed against each other,
whinnied and stomped.
There are things they did that I do not know.
The privacy of them had a river in it.
Had our universe in it. And the way
its border looks back at us with its light.
This was finally their freedom.
The freedom an oak tree knows.
That is built at night by stars.

"Yellowjackets" by Yusef Komunyakaa
by MaryAnn

YELLOWJACKETS by Yusef Komunyakaa

When the plowblade struck
An old stump hiding under
The soil like a beggar’s
Rotten tooth, they swarmed up
& Mister Jackson left the plow
Wedged like a whaler’s harpoon.
The horse was midnight
Against dusk, tethered to somebody’s
Pocketwatch. He shivered, but not
The way women shook their heads
Before mirrors at the five
& dime — a deeper connection
To the low field’s evening star.
He stood there, in tracechains,
Lathered in froth, just
Stopped by a great, goofy
Calmness. He whinnied
Once, & then the whole
Beautiful, blue-black sky
Fell on his back.

"The Dusk of Horses" by James Dickey
by MaryAnn

THE DUSK OF HORSES by James Dickey

Right under their noses, the green

Of the field is paling away

Because of something fallen from the sky.

They see this, and put down

Their long heads deeper in grass

That only just escapes reflecting them

As the dream of a millpond would.

The color green flees over the grass

Like an insect, following the red sun over

The next hill. The grass is white.

There is no cloud so dark and white at once;

There is no pool at dawn that deepens

Their faces and thirsts as this does.

Now they are feeding on solid

Cloud, and, one by one,

With nails as silent as stars among the wood

Hewed down years ago and now rotten,

The stalls are put up around them.

Now if they lean, they come

On wood on any side. Not touching it, they sleep.

No beast ever lived who understood

What happened among the sun's fields,

Or cared why the color of grass

Fled over the hill while he stumbled,

Led by the halter to sleep

On his four taxed, worthy legs.

Each thinks he awakens where

The sun is black on the rooftop,

That the green is dancing in the next pasture,

And that the way to sleep

In a cloud, or in a risen lake,

Is to walk as though he were still

in the drained field standing, head down,

To pretend to sleep when led,

And thus to go under the ancient white

Of the meadow, as green goes

And whiteness comes up through his face

Holding stars and rotten rafters,

Quiet, fragrant, and relieved.

Re: "The Dusk of Horses" by James Dickey
by CutterMcCool

Thanks, MA, for all the horsey poems. Think we need enough to make a merry-go-round (how many would that take)?

Re: "The Dusk of Horses" by James Dickey
by CutterMcCool
Some of y'all (shout out to Greensboro!) have pointed out that the poem makes pains to avoid anthropomorphizing the horses; I have to disagree. While it does avoid it mostly, it does not entirely: "They have no debt to anyone." To say the horses have no debt (a human concept, no?) suggests they may be symbols (role models, perhaps?) for humanity. Only humans can have debt, in the sense of borrowing money that they owe to a lender. This line, the strangest in the poem, seems to problematize the simplistic reading that many are ascribing to the poem.
Re: "The Dusk of Horses" by James Dickey
by robusto

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. "They have no debt" is, in a roundabout way, equivalent to saying "They are unlike us humans, bub." Q.E.D.


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