You bike in DC and break traffic laws? Wow, maybe I've almost accidentally killed you. I assume you don't drive if you think cyclists fall into the vehicle or facilitator categories. I'll help: What about the "Video Game" cyclists that like to see how close to the edge they can ride in traffic? What about the "Egocentric" cyclists that think it's everyone else's responsibility to look where the cyclist is going? What about the "Tough Guy in Certain Situations" cyclists that love to ride through pedestrians on sidewalks but are too scared to ride in the street? What about the "Spandex" cyclists that love to ride their $5,000 racing bikes at top speed on mix use trails? My girlfriend got nailed by one of those jerks while jogging a few years back. Wasn't pretty. I hate cyclists, which is why I'm all for dedicated bike lanes.

Good plan. Sit in your car and feel protected. Avoid encountering other people. Spew carbon into the air. Give money to Al Qaeda. Gain weight. Be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Cyclists are no less courteous than drivers, and their impact otherwise is vastly more benign.

right then:

You bike in DC and break traffic laws? Wow, maybe I've almost accidentally killed you. I assume you don't drive if you think cyclists fall into the vehicle or facilitator categories. I'll help: What about the "Video Game" cyclists that like to see how close to the edge they can ride in traffic? What about the "Egocentric" cyclists that think it's everyone else's responsibility to look where the cyclist is going? What about the "Tough Guy in Certain Situations" cyclists that love to ride through pedestrians on sidewalks but are too scared to ride in the street? What about the "Spandex" cyclists that love to ride their $5,000 racing bikes at top speed on mix use trails? My girlfriend got nailed by one of those jerks while jogging a few years back. Wasn't pretty. I hate cyclists, which is why I'm all for dedicated bike lanes.

I have to say that I'm quite surprised to learn that someone who holds an umbrella of hatred over a group of millions of people consisting of small children, grandmas, men, women, professionals, students, laborers, and everything in between has a girlfriend.

I'm a cyclist. I ride my bike every day. And I do NONE of the things you mention.

I used to try to ride my road bike on the BIKE path to get exercise, but too many people decided amongst themselves that the BIKE path was actually a "mixed use trail" and now I can't anymore. I live in a dense urban area- if I wanted to ride to the suburbs for a fitness ride on my fast bike, that was the only way I could go. The pedestrians took it over, and I now I can't get out there.

P.S. dedicated bike lanes are absolutely worthless. We have them all over the place. Drivers never stay out of them, the drive across them without looking to see if someone's coming, they're too close to the parking lane, and good forbid you have to make a left turn.

Gosh, i'm pressed to think of an issue (including politics) where I've seen either side completely unwilling to accept any point the other side has. I'm no expert on the subject, but I have had at one point or another only a car, bicycle, or motorcycle as my only source of transportation. Here's my thoughts on this debate, ridicule as needed:

1. It's ridiculous to apply all automobile rules to bicycles. They aren't cars, they can't kill someone like cars (running a stop sign, etc). Any cop who is handing out tickets for a rolling stop to a cycler is an ass. They are either on a power trip or being crushed into silly adherence thru quotas.

2. Driving a car is not supporting Al Qaeda. Making this leap of logic is asinine and diminishes both your arguement and the group you are supposedly representing. It's honestly the sort of proposition a flamer would make to incite anger against the group they supposedly represent.

3. Saying "cyclists are no less courteous than drivers" is like saying "assholes are no less courteous than jerk wads". The reason people are griping is becuase they are both assholes, generally.

4. Roads are built and maintained, in part, using revenue from auto registration, inpections, gas tax, etc. Bikers pay no extra tax at all for using the roads. To demand equal rights and equal responsibility (a key point I think), is silly. And I'm not saying this is a bad thing, they shouldn't be held to the same level of accountability as cars (see traffic tickets above).

5. The absolute kicker? Bikers complaining that pedestrians shouldn't be walking on their paths, when they absolutely insist that they have the right to bike on roads. And neither of which they have contributed to more than the pedestrians.

Who IS the Goebbels for the Health Nazis? Is it you, butterwb?

Well put! I especially like point #1.

But point #4 you're a little in the weeds, that "you don't pay taxes" ruse is a favorite of the "get off the road" ragers. Gas taxes and reg fees don't come close to paying for the infrastructure we build for cars and trucks. We all pay taxes and we all have the right to use the road. Except limited-access highways, let's leave those for the big toys.

Otherwise you're spot-on, thanks.

Point #5 is off as well. Limited-access highways ban bicycles and pedestrians, and so they stay off of those roads for legal and safety reasons. Vehicles and bicycles stay off of pedestrian-only paths. Most public roads are open to vehicles and bicyclists. So why should it be OK for pedestrians to be on bike-only paths? Another classic example of "bikes are 2nd class citizens" thinking, not to mention a perfect illustration of why segregating bicycles from other modes of transportation would never work.

The tax defense is ridiculous. I pay a school tax yet have no children. So what? There are plenty of 'things' people are legally required to pay for with no direct return on their dollars. Get over it. Besides, I'm willing to wager the majority of 'Cyclists' own a car too. Tax covered. Feel better?

Gosh, I asked for ridiculte and didn't get it in "The Fray". I'm actually surprised at the civility of the disagreement, well done all!

I do want to defend my position a little though, just because I am an overly defensive asshole (at least according to my wife).

Regarding #4 I didn't say "you don't pay taxes", I said bikers don't pay "extra tax". Everyone pays the regular citizen taxes, but car owners pay extra taxes on gas, registration, etal that contribute in some extent to the roads. I'm not saying this is right or proper, but car owners do pay more taxes than non-car owners, all else equal.

Regarding #5, living in the great hick state of Texas, I have no familiarity with a "bike only" path. I do know about "bike paths" that have no prohibition against walking on them too. So there may be local regulations that apply. However, there are rules that prohibit walking on the freeway, just as they preclude biking onthem, so saying that "bikers are 2nd class citizens" seems to be either overly sensitive or intentionally trying to cause an arguement.

However, I can definitely understand how a bunch of people who could just as easily walk on the grass would be annoying when you are riding. As a frequent business traveller these days, I wish there was a fine for not standing to the side on the airport moving sidewalks when your just standing there taking a ride.