Is this the kind of news we are going to start to dread daily from Afghanistan? Are our soldiers going to start being killed and wounded by the dozens every week there? When are our leaders going to stop listening to the military's career officer class and start listening to the people who elected them?

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I doubt if many of the Taliban are going to agree to accept a couple of hundred dollars a month and become our temporary friends, like most of the Iraqi Sunni insurgents eventually did do. Their fathers already defeated the Soviet Union in a decade-long war that was at least as bloody as anything we're likely to throw at them now; additionally, they have the very terrain of their fantastically rugged homeland as a further ace that the Sunnis did not have.

Of course leaving will put our allies in a bad lurch; of course the young girls of Afghanistan will likely not "go to school" once we're gone; of course some asshole of a religious dictator will seize power in the vacuum we leave behind. Ask yourself, though; are we likely to be able to prevent those outcomes in the long run anyway? The sad fact is that there are real, unavoidable limits to what American power can achieve in the world; to argue otherwise is purely wishful thinking.

It is time for President Obama to look beyond the shoulders full of stars and chests full of campaign ribbons that confront him every time he considers letting the Afghans have their long-suffering country back; after all, the Taliban are Afghans, we are not. Our President simply must tell the Generals that they will have to find another way to advance their careers than continuing George W. Bush's occupation of that pitiful little central Asian country. Really, guys, is going back to live on those domestic military bases all that awful? Must the children and the poor of our own country go without so you can keep on getting the high of blowing-up billions in fantastically expensive munitions every week, not to mention exercising the god-like power to order young men and women to go and die or be mangled for the rest of their lives?

End our war in Afghanistan now, Mr. President. Your critics on the Conservative Right will never give you credit for any highly unlikely success our forces might achieve anyhow, so why not save thousands of young American lives (plus untold tens of billions of our tax dollars) and get the hell out of there now?

Both the US & UK Governments were quite happy to provide the Taliban with both arms and funds when Afghanistan was occupied by Russia, even that arch villain bogeyman, Bin Laden, was on the American payroll. So why did this relationship break down, was it because of the terrorist attack on 9/11 on the world trade centre? Hardly both the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were actually planned before that event took place.

Was it because the USA could no longer stand by whilst the country was ruled by "Islamic extremists" and a lack of "democracy"? Not at all, the USA/UK were more than happy to have business relationships with the Taliban, the problems began when the business relationship broke down. The strategic location of Afghanistan can scarcely be overstated. The Caspian Basin contains up to $16 trillion worth of oil and gas resources, and the most direct pipeline route to the richest markets is through Afghanistan.

Almost as soon as the Russians had left, the Bridas Corporation of Argentina acquired production leases and exploration contracts in the region, and by November of 1996 had signed an agreement with the Taliban to build a pipeline across Afghanistan. However the American company Unocal had other ideas, even invited the Taliban to meetings in Washington, Berlin, and Islamabad, in an effort to persuade them to cancel the contract with Bridas in exchange for a tidy package of foreign aid. Unfortunately the negotiations between the Taliban, American Government officials and Unocal broke down. According to an article in the UK Guardian, State Department official Christina Rocca then told the Taliban at their last pipeline negotiation in August of 2001, just five weeks before 9/11, 'Accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.'

So to conclude the occupation of Afghanistan doesn't have any noble motives, it is based purely on economics, and an US/UK attempt to control the Middle East oil reserves, which also explains the occupation of Iraq and the current threats against Iran over their non-existent nuclear weapons.

In all honesty, another_liberal, that post almost brings me to tears. Thank you for the link, evidentiary support for positions being at such a premium, I really appreciated it.

I wish I had just one hour to speak to President Obama, without any McChrystal clones around.

You think that would make a difference? Obama knew who his bosses were before he took the job, in fact he had to get their approval. Presuming the USA's foreign policy depends on the views of one man is not really reality.

that's when you negotiate with a light saber. Cut a deal with our former allies and build the gas pipeline or cut and run, we can't afford to militarily masturbate any longer over there.

Can't they run the pipeline some other route? Why not strike a deal with the Russians to distribute for us? They already have the terminals to do that. Why do we have to stay enemies? We can't afford all this war for the sake of war.

Still and all, President Obama does have the authority to fire any of them if they refuse to obey his orders. They might respond by trying to stage some kind of silly-assed coup, but they would only achieve the discrediting of the American Military Officer Class forever. The President is, ultimately and whether they like it or not, their "Commander in Chief."

I have few doubts that what you suggest is the principal reason we began our warlike interest in Afghanistan; however, never underestimate how much the continuation of our General Officers' perks and prominence has to do with our continuing to stay in that unfortunate land.

If Obama is not going to try to win, and it certainly appears that he is not, then I agree, get out.

Jack

Thats why I chastised Bush brutally for years, or at least one of the reasons. The Taliban supported the Al Qaeda training camps and assisted the people who attacked and killed thousands of Americans and legal guests within our borders. If we allow the Taliban to return they will be stronger than ever before.

Our generals know what they need to do the job, and if Obama ignores their advice he will be just as willfully incompetent and negligent as his predecessor.

Right now the hard left of the Democratic party is doing their level best to hand the Congress and the White house right back into the hands of the hard right. The last two elections have not been a mandate for far left liberalism it was a mandate to move to the middle. There should never be any worry over credit for success, only what is best for the nation and the globe. To abandon Afghanistan now is to hand every enemy we have, and we have many, a massive military and PR victory. The world does not hate our presence in Afghanistan and we are defending our nation from the terrorists that will rule there if we withdraw. The increased presence and strength of the Taliban and Alqeda in Pakistan is a direct result of Bush's incompetence in Afghanistan. With the Taliban's strength now in both countries, you will be handing the nuclear missiles of Pakistan to the exact people who have already murdered thousands of Americans and our guests.

Do you realize that your post was exacty what Rumsfield said about listening to career military officers?

JackDallas:

If Obama is not going to try to win, and it certainly appears that he is not, then I agree, get out.

Jack

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To my knowledge you never once wrote that sentence about GWB and Afghanistan, yet Obama has dobe far more to try to create positive results there than Bush ever did. It was incompetent lack of stratagy and planning by Bush and rumfeld that led to the mess we currently have. 7 years of ignoring the place while our enemies regrouped, entrenched and developed entire new game plans have left our forces with a job 1000 times harder than it should have been.

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JackDallas:

If Obama is not going to try to win, and it certainly appears that he is not, then I agree, get out.

Jack

And of course if Obama follows your suggestion here you and your like minded travelers will skewer him mercilessly, and if thats why you want him to pull out then you are the worst of the cut and runners that have existed.

Hi again AL, I have given careful consideration to this issue and read through the entire thread. Let me weigh in with my opinion. Look, there are secret strategic reasons why we are in Afghanistan. The Commander in Chief and his military advisors are much more privy to this secret information and closer to the action on the ground; some of the military closer to that action than the Commander in Chief…but you get my point. You have to trust people sometimes to be doing their jobs; one should never micro-manage, especially when one is not privy to secret information.

We need a massive PR campaign to win the hearts and minds of the Afghani people. I suggest we stage a countrywide re-release of Rambo 3. Memories are mighty short and maybe the good people of Afghanistan just need a reminder of all we have done for them.

You are saying that our feckless president should discover the spine that he does not in fact have and defiantly do what he campaigned on doing, which is to put a speedy end to both conflicts and get our people the hell out of there?

Well, hell, if you starry-eyed liberals had really wanted a president with a set of cast iron balls then you would have put her into office in 2008 when Hillary Clinton was running. So . . . how's that Hope and Change diet working out for you guys? Finding it a bit nutritionally thin yet?

Of course leaving will put our allies in a bad lurch; of course the young girls of Afghanistan will likely not "go to school" once we're gone; of course some asshole of a religious dictator will seize power in the vacuum we leave behind. Ask yourself, though; are we likely to be able to prevent those outcomes in the long run anyway? The sad fact is that there are real, unavoidable limits to what American power can achieve in the world; to argue otherwise is purely wishful thinking.

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This will happen no matter when we leave. Obama promised to get the troops out of war and that is what we expect him to do. This war is killing us.Not to mention our many young who are dying for a Politician's ego.

You guys love to pretend that the majority of Afghans, including women actually want their country occupied by a foreign power(s). It's the same as Iraq of course where the myth is that the Iraqis have really appreciated the genocide. But it won't make the slightest difference, the US in in Afghanistan for strategic purposes and the control of ME natural resources, it's not a charity act or even an enforcement of democracy, Hamid Karzai won the last election by fraud and is involved with drug dealing

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As far as the occupation goes, people were somewhat supportive of it originally, but as conditions have deteriorated, they have begun to see the presence of foreign troops as a big part of the problem. I would say that a majority of Afghans now want the US and NATO to leave as soon as possible

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The so-called “lefts” and liberals who try to justify the war in Afghanistan with claims it is bringing democracy and liberation to women do not like what Malalai Joya has to say

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We share the grief of the mothers, fathers, wives, sons and daughters of the fallen. It is my view that these British casualties, like the many thousands of Afghan civilian dead, are victims of the unjust policies that the Nato countries have pursued under the leadership of the US government.

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Afghans' Support for U.S. Efforts Tumbling

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Afghans to Obama: End the Occupation Transcript: Radio interview with Eman, Member of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA).

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Afghan MP speaks out against Western occupation