what golden age? eh?

the real question is, is hip hop really music or just a cutsie rythmic street form of jive?

i say its just jive.

Why even write about a "golden age" for such a non-phenomenon? Golden age of hip-hop? That's like speaking of the Golden Age of Corprophagia.

jive or not it was and continues to be the biggest movement of newness in music since grunge and i'd put dr. dre up there with hendrix as the last musician to truly create a new sound. the problem is the same problem dre has had putting out his detox album, there hasn't been a new great talent since eminem. lil wayne and drake are ridiculously overrated, signs of how low the hip hop tide line is now. mostly it's just producers making impact at the moment.

and for the record mf doom is one of the worst mc's i've ever heard. his songs all have ADHD, no two lines have anything to do with the two lines before them, it's practically a freestyle. i appreciate his eccentricity, but boy would i prefer some more talent.

no mention of del the funkee homosapien, the gorillaz, gnarls barkely (despite pailing in comparison to cee-lo green's solo work). great talents who are still creating interesting music.

Sigh, ignorance is bliss is suppose.

Whenever there's an article on hip-hop you can always count on some curmudgeon to discount the art form and undoubtedly these "wise sages of poetry and music theory" fail a very very simple test:

Have. You. Listened. To. It?

I mean, how silly do you have to be to decry something of which you have no knowledge?

How easy is it to set this simpletons up to look like fools with this simple question?

Blah, blah, blah, it's not music. It's just n-words yellin'. Blah blah blah.

"Have you listened to it?" uh well, no, but I JUST KNOW IT'S BAD (because young people and Blacks like it, so you know, how good can it be?)

Idiots.

I'm not a huge fan of country music, but I'm not dumb enough to say it's all bad because I DON'T LISTEN TO IT. I'm ignorant of country music and I freely admit that. But I'm also smart enough and wise enough to simply say, "from what I've heard of country music, it doesn't particularly interest me. The aesthetic of country music doesn't appeal to me, so I don't listen to it. If you know of some country music that you think I might like, then let me know."

How do you people live with yourselves? Better question: how does anyone else live with you in your sea of ignorance? You know it's not just hip-hop that you fools decry, it's any food, any culture, any movie, ANYTHING of which you're ignorant that is automatically BAD in your alleged minds.

Pathetic.

timbre, beat, tempo, meter, pitch, mode, intervals, tuning, tonality, melody, texture, harmony (function, tendency, progression, cadence, and modulation)

hiphop has little of those requirements contained with in its structure. i have listened to hip hop and find it as i said a cutsie form of street jive. i am not ignorant of hip hop music i think it is a very juvenile step toward music by people that would like to be musicans but won't learn music. there is music that i do not like for various reasons but its still music. i do not like the lyrics of most country music but it is music. i like lots of music from all over the world, classical, jazz, and folk. having heard real african music and the masters of jazz and blues i would say that hip hop is a step backward by our high pigmentation melonin brothers and sisters.

So I take it you've listened to the Roots and found them (trained at the Philidelphia High School for Creative Performing Arts) lacking in "timbre, beat, tempo, meter, pitch, mode, intervals, tuning, tonality, melody, texture, harmony (function, tendency, progression, cadence, and modulation)"

The same with Crown City Rockers, Ozomatli?

Correct?

Further the presumption that "music" must meet the definition that YOU impose is laughable.

Regardless, you are, of course, entitled to your misinformed and bigotted opinion of whatever; just know that there is a large segment of the population of this planet that finds your opinion to be baseless, arrogant, biased, and silly.

requirements? do you understand music at all? or do you just have books and lists (i'm actually assuming you got that from wikipedia)? hip hop music doesn't have beat, tempo, intervals, tonality or TUNING? do you know what these words mean?

those are words that help describe parts of music, they are not requirements that all music have. if you don't like pop music that's fine, but don't make a list like this and say hip hop music (or any kind of music) doesn't have them. that's just insanely stupid.

This is the equivalent of talking about the golden age of minstrel shows. Geez. How proud should we be of grown men who parade around as if they are gods and speak almost exclusively about materialism and loose women. I'm 29 and as i type this i feel like an old fart telling people to get my lawn. Jay-Z is the worst. Excuse me but as a black women I am sick of being told that the most I have to offer is a fat butt and the ability to be a ride or die chick. All women are objects to these people.

tubbs:

Whenever there's an article on hip-hop you can always count on some curmudgeon to discount the art form and undoubtedly these "wise sages of poetry and music theory" fail a very very simple test:

Have. You. Listened. To. It?

Well, I haven't always been able to avoid _hearing_ it, if that's what you mean. But hip-hop enthusiasts shouldn't feel offended, I think 90% of all popular music for the last fifty or sixty years has been boring, tedious, irritating or annoying. Also much of "classical" music. (Oddly enough, I hear relatively little bad music that dates from the 1920s and 1930s. And doo-wop was almost uniformly good.)

Sometimes it feels very lonely, being the only person on earth consistantly able to distinguish between good and bad sounding music.

Actually, I HAVE listened to it, and engineered a couple of Hip-hop CD projects. I understand the lyrics and their context, and I still think Hip-hop sucks as a musical genre. As poetry, it's valid, but it's simply spoken word set to pre-recorded "beats". It exists, with a few exceptions, without actual musicians (other than those who are sampled). I won't say it isn't music, but it's music of a far lower level than most of what's out there.

Your implication that anyone who hates Hip-hop is a racist is brainless on the face of it; how many white people who hate hip-hop also hate Jimi Hendrix? Duke Ellington? Miles Davis? The Four Tops? And what about the African-Americans who hate Hip-hop? Are they self-loathing Uncle Toms? It's like saying if you're white, you must appreciate country music.

All genres of music are NOT equally valid. Now go listen to some Disco.

Actually, Iwasme, Hip-hop contains all the parameters of music you mentioned; it's just that they were either recorded by someone else (sampled) or exist as synthesizer presets, which are combined to make the "beats". I've seen the process first-hand in the studio. At least they don't call themselves "Musicians", they calll themselves "Producers".

i din't say it lacked all. hip hop lacks most of what is listed. all music has some of the elements but the more elements that are included the more complex it becomes and the more enjoyable. hip hop is simple minded street music, like i said cutsie jive.

WAIT, WAIT !!! All of you shut up!! I know what music is, and if I say it's music or not then that's a fact!!!!! So you all need to just stop talking and take whatever I say as the musical Bible.

Orrrrr, you can all just shut up and acknowledge the fact that music is not defined by your arbitrary parameters and the quality of it is not defined by those either. Personal opinions defines music and it's quality. That the only fact available here. But for all of you who want to claim that hip hop isn't music or just a 'low form' of it, please by all means take your standards and apply them to Native American traditional music, and then tell them that since it doesn't meet your standards it's not actual music. I'm sure it'll go over well.

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you nailed it lady, music for immature people.