In China when taught about the episodes at Tianamin Square, the whole video is shown, not just the 15 seconds that is shown in America. In the whole video, you see the tanks repeatedly trying to maneuver around the guy, while he scrambles to get in front of them again. There is also censorship that is occurring in America, and it is the American media filtering out the portions of the video that show the Chinese soldiers attempting to work around the issue. The soldiers go out of their way repeatedly to not harm him. Go stick yourself in front of an American tank yelling about how Bush or Obama did you wrong and see what happens. If they run over you, our conservative right would hail the solders as heros for defending the country's honor against your treasonous resistance. Does that make what happened in China right? Not really. But does it show that the soldiers have regard for human life? Yes, to a point, same as ours. Does it show anything about the leadership above them? Maybe, maybe not. In the end, more questions than answers.

Do they show the part where the soldiers killed hundreds of people, too?

mrballcb:

In China when taught about the episodes at Tianamin Square, the whole video is shown, not just the 15 seconds that is shown in America. In the whole video, you see the tanks repeatedly trying to maneuver around the guy, while he scrambles to get in front of them again. There is also censorship that is occurring in America, and it is the American media filtering out the portions of the video that show the Chinese soldiers attempting to work around the issue. The soldiers go out of their way repeatedly to not harm him. Go stick yourself in front of an American tank yelling about how Bush or Obama did you wrong and see what happens. If they run over you, our conservative right would hail the solders as heros for defending the country's honor against your treasonous resistance. Does that make what happened in China right? Not really. But does it show that the soldiers have regard for human life? Yes, to a point, same as ours. Does it show anything about the leadership above them? Maybe, maybe not. In the end, more questions than answers.

Can you cite one instance in which An American tank has rolled over an American citizen during a protest on American soil? how about an American tank rolling over a civillian somebody in a war zone?

Either Chinese tanks are difficult to control and should not be used to control riots or any area where there is mere civil unrest or the tank driver was adjusting the course of his tank to ensure the protester was going to be crushed by the treads of the tank.

Here you go TexasPete:

Friday, 5 July, 2002, 10:00 GMT 11:00 UK

US soldiers charged for Korean deaths
There are 37,000 US troops in South Korea
Two US soldiers have been charged over the deaths of two South Korean schoolgirls who were struck by an armoured vehicle during a training exercise.

The US army accepts full responsibility for this tragic accident
General Leon LaPorte, US commander The accident happened last month in a village near Uijongbu, 30 kilometres (18 miles) south of South Korea's heavily fortified border with North Korea.

It has prompted several anti-US demonstrations by South Korean protesters and an apology from the US military.

The US has 37,000 troops in South Korea to deter any invasion by the North.

The protesters, some of whom attacked and injured South Korean police guarding the US army base at Uijongbu, said the drivers of the vehicle had deliberately killed the girls and demanded the soldiers be handed over to local police.

Village road

The United States Forces Korea (USFK) said in a statement that Sergeant Mark Walker and Sergeant Fernando Nino of the 8th US Army 2nd Infantry division were charged with "negligent homicide" in the deaths of teenagers Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun.

"Both are charged with the deaths of the two girls by negligently failing to ensure the safe operation of the vehicle," the statement said.

Sergeant Walker was the driver and Sergeant Nino the track commander of the tank-like minesweeping vehicle which ran over the girls on a village road

It was not clear where in the US the two men come from.

On Wednesday, USFK commander General Leon LaPorte, issued the latest of several formal US apologies for the incident.

"The US army accepts full responsibility for this tragic accident," his statement said.

"I apologise for the grief and sorrow we've inflicted on these two families, which is indescribable."

South Korea has no jurisdiction over US military personnel involved in accidents while on duty. Occasional accidents and crimes have prompted demands from civic groups to give South Korea more legal power in cases involving US troops.

That said, I don't really understand either your argument or the original poster's. The tanks never ran over "tank man." He was probably arrested and killed by China's secret police. The point isn't whether or not some poor low-level Chinese soldier did or did not try to drive around a single man. The point is the symbolic power of the image: an unarmed civilian facing down the full force of an autocratic regime. The point is that the Chinese government would send in a giant fleet of tanks to disperse their own citizens from protesting. The point is that for a brief moment in the summer of 1989 a large movement of people stood up to the Chinese regime, and they were brutally crushed. And it is all captured in a single image.

There is a reason that there is no American equivalent of this image. We generally don't send tanks in to disperse protesters. On the other hand, we will always have this stain on our conscience, but at least I can call it up on Google, with ease, whenever I please.

slippedvoussoir:

Here you go TexasPete:

Friday, 5 July, 2002, 10:00 GMT 11:00 UK

US soldiers charged for Korean deaths
There are 37,000 US troops in South Korea
Two US soldiers have been charged over the deaths of two South Korean schoolgirls who were struck by an armoured vehicle during a training exercise.

The US army accepts full responsibility for this tragic accident
General Leon LaPorte, US commander The accident happened last month in a village near Uijongbu, 30 kilometres (18 miles) south of South Korea's heavily fortified border with North Korea.

It has prompted several anti-US demonstrations by South Korean protesters and an apology from the US military.

The US has 37,000 troops in South Korea to deter any invasion by the North.

The protesters, some of whom attacked and injured South Korean police guarding the US army base at Uijongbu, said the drivers of the vehicle had deliberately killed the girls and demanded the soldiers be handed over to local police.

Village road

The United States Forces Korea (USFK) said in a statement that Sergeant Mark Walker and Sergeant Fernando Nino of the 8th US Army 2nd Infantry division were charged with "negligent homicide" in the deaths of teenagers Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun.

"Both are charged with the deaths of the two girls by negligently failing to ensure the safe operation of the vehicle," the statement said.

Sergeant Walker was the driver and Sergeant Nino the track commander of the tank-like minesweeping vehicle which ran over the girls on a village road

It was not clear where in the US the two men come from.

On Wednesday, USFK commander General Leon LaPorte, issued the latest of several formal US apologies for the incident.

"The US army accepts full responsibility for this tragic accident," his statement said.

"I apologise for the grief and sorrow we've inflicted on these two families, which is indescribable."

South Korea has no jurisdiction over US military personnel involved in accidents while on duty. Occasional accidents and crimes have prompted demands from civic groups to give South Korea more legal power in cases involving US troops.

Didn't they pin a medal on the chinese tank driver? We prosecute ours!

Didn't they pin a medal on the chinese tank driver? We prosecute ours!

Sometimes. And sometimes - like with George Tenet, we TOO pin medals on individuals who authorize extra-judicial killing and torture. The US is a bit better than the PRC. But particularly in the last 8 years in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have acted more like the PRC and the NKVD than the americans you are busy writing hagiographies to.

The US is a bit better than the PRC. But particularly in the last 8 years in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have acted more like the PRC and the NKVD than the americans you are busy writing hagiographies to.

Oh come on.

I repeat, the Chinese tanks did not run over "Tank Man." Let's get our facts straight before we start spouting off.

Well lets see

There once was a man who was an aide to a senior leader - a leader that was declared an enemy.

• The Army invaded and took our man prisoner - lets call him X
• The subjected X to Harsh Interrogation - because he was feared to be an enemy of the nation
• They then put X before a 3 judge panel to assess his guilt
• during the trial the introduced evidence garnered from the harsh interrogation
• during the trial X was not given an independent lawyer
• during the trial X was not allowed access to all of the evidence against him for security reasons
• during the trial, uncorroborated testimony of others was sworn into evidence without any cross-examination
• during the trial X was not allowed to confront all of his accusers
• X was convicted of being a danger to the security of the nation
• He was sentenced to indefinate detention
• He was taken away and continued to be Harshly Interrogated
• He died at the hands of his interrogators

Now from this story. You tell me. Was this:

• Bin Laden's compatriots in Waziristan with Daniel Pearl?
• US Soldiers in Baghram or Abu Grahib or Guantanamo Bay?
• NKVD and my grandfather.

Me - without knowing X's name, or the name of the nation or the name of the judicial panel - I cannot tell the difference. The circumstances fit all three.

"Let's get our facts straight before we start spouting off."

Dude, half the people who post on these discussion forums are correcting garbage that OTHER half write. There are no significant debates per se; only vain attempts to correct faulty knowledge. Nowadays, fact has become interchangeable with opinion. Take the gentlemen above who thinks that the tank driver who didn't run over the protester received a medal for doing so. It's not as if he has bothered to check this dubious piece of information. Not at all. He's either heard it from someone just as ignorant him or, more likely, has convinced himself it did really happen. FOX news has made a fortune feeding the prejudices of their audience for over a decade. Just imagine the film Roshomon narrating the accounts of people who didn't see the central event, but only thought they had and relating the most outlandish accounts of it just the same. That is the state of general knowledge today....

"Can you cite one instance in which An American tank has rolled over an American citizen during a protest on American soil?"

hmm how about waco??? that wasn't even a protest but innocent people minding their own business.

bigfeet:

"Can you cite one instance in which An American tank has rolled over an American citizen during a protest on American soil?"

hmm how about waco??? that wasn't even a protest but innocent people minding their own business.

Talk about correcting facts

• No one was crushed beneath a tank or by an armored vehicle at Waco
• Shooting officers serving a legal warrant is not being "an innocent person midnign your own business".
• Refusing to let the courts sort out the legality of the whole thing, and instead holding minor hostages in an armed shootout is anything but "innocent.

Simple facts - as Ed pointed out. Much of the time is spent correcting statements that are factually wrong.

ed68:

"Let's get our facts straight before we start spouting off."

Dude, half the people who post on these discussion forums are correcting garbage that OTHER half write. There are no significant debates per se; only vain attempts to correct faulty knowledge. Nowadays, fact has become interchangeable with opinion. Take the gentlemen above who thinks that the tank driver who didn't run over the protester received a medal for doing so. It's not as if he has bothered to check this dubious piece of information. Not at all. He's either heard it from someone just as ignorant him or, more likely, has convinced himself it did really happen.

Dude....haven't you heard of hyperbole? I was making a point.

FOX news has made a fortune feeding the prejudices of their audience for over a decade.

Dude.....what are you smoking? Fox is the only new station that actually dosent five opinion on its NEWS broadcasts are you perhaps thinking about its OPINION Shows like Hannity and O'Reily? Those are not news dude!

Just imagine the film Roshomon narrating the accounts of people who didn't see the central event, but only thought they had and relating the most outlandish accounts of it just the same.

You base your higher thought on a Japanes B movie?

That is the state of general knowledge today....

Dude...whats wrong with you?

ed68:

"Let's get our facts straight before we start spouting off."

Dude, half the people who post on these discussion forums are correcting garbage that OTHER half write. There are no significant debates per se; only vain attempts to correct faulty knowledge. Nowadays, fact has become interchangeable with opinion. Take the gentlemen above who thinks that the tank driver who didn't run over the protester received a medal for doing so. It's not as if he has bothered to check this dubious piece of information. Not at all. He's either heard it from someone just as ignorant him or, more likely, has convinced himself it did really happen.

Dude....haven't you heard of hyperbole? I was making a point.

FOX news has made a fortune feeding the prejudices of their audience for over a decade.

Dude.....what are you smoking? Fox is the only new station that actually dosent five opinion on its NEWS broadcasts are you perhaps thinking about its OPINION Shows like Hannity and O'Reily? Those are not news dude!

Just imagine the film Roshomon narrating the accounts of people who didn't see the central event, but only thought they had and relating the most outlandish accounts of it just the same.

You base your higher thought on a Japanes B movie?

That is the state of general knowledge today....

Dude...whats wrong with you?