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A couple of points...
by josh_f

As someone who wrote a dissertation on George Herbert last year while at Trinity College, Cambridge (where Herbert himself attended), I'm delighted to see him getting some attention for once - for years, he's been condemmed to obscurity in comparison to his showy associate, John Donne.

However, I have a couple of small points. While I don't wish to damage the no doubt beautiful image you have in your mind's eye of the Church Monument's graveyard, the actual setting is inside a church. Think of the marble tombs and alabaster statues that fill the dimly-lit alcoves of a thousand English country churches - the kind of figure that Philip Larkin muses on in "An Arundel Tomb".

Secondly, I was a little gobsmacked that you find Church Monuments an overtly religious poem compared to his other works. Herbert was an ordained minister, who wrote almost exclusively religious verse. Church Monuments can be found in his epic "The Temple", a whole book of religious poetry framed around the architecture of a church, the Christian year, and bible lessons. Even as a solid atheist, I still think his work is an incredible legacy of beauty and devotion - testament to his genius.

Despite these flaws, I'm glad Herbert's lines are still inspiring readers. His sentences, conceits, and images do indeed sing: here's a personal favourite:

PRAYER the Churches banquet, Angels age,
Gods breath in man returning to his birth,
The soul in paraphrase, heart in pilgrimage,
The Christian plummet sounding heav’n and earth ;

Engine against th’ Almightie, sinner's towre,
Reversed thunder, Christ-side-piercing spear,
The six daies world-transposing in an houre,
A kinde of tune, which all things heare and fear ;

Softnesse, and peace, and joy, and love, and blisse,
Exalted Manna, gladnesse of the best,
Heaven in ordinarie, man well drest,
The milkie way, the bird of Paradise,

Church-bels beyond the stars heard, the souls bloud,
The land of spices, something understood.

All the best,

Josh F

Re: A couple of points...
by Robert Pinsky SlateIcon

Thanks, Josh.Good to hear from an expert.

In the threads below, the matter of inside the church or out of it arises a couple of times-- it's the image of jet and marble stones bowing and kneeling and falling down flat that led (or misled) me into picturing headstones in a churchyard. I suppose these could be vertical stones inside the church, but the succession of leaning over and falling does suggest headstones.

(I think the discussion and introduction emphasize the relatively implicit rather than explicit Christian element in this poem, compared to most of GH's work. No one would doubt that he is a religious poet! I would be interested in your response to Paul Breslin's Zen Buddhist understanding of "Church Monuments," on a thread below.

Re: A couple of points...
by zinya
Greetings,

I'd be interested if you'd bequeath us a bit more of what your research led you to conclude regarding the monuments of the title being inside the church. To me, there is, within the poem, not only the lines Robert refers to - that do, to me also, suggest a hypothesized image of headstones falling over the bodies they seek to honor - but also the word "below" in the final stanza ("Mark here below / How tame these ashes are").

In the Arundel Tomb you cite by comparison, it's such a unique tomb (apparently) that it makes me wonder if you think Herbert might conceivably even have been thinking of (or reacting to a visit to) Chichester Cathedral himself. I wouldn't have thought so, but now just wondering if that's part of your thinking. I've spent my share of hours in a mausoleum, and in visiting such churches as might be Herbert's but it seems unusual that the burial plots inside churches themselves would be in the ground. The Chichester Cathedral seems to have one such - with a "Roman mosaic pavement" visible through a floor window, as I understand it (albeit from wikipedia) - Is that the kind of image you have of Herbert's setting? Rather than burials like "chest tombs" - which would leave me head-scratching about why he says "Mark here below" ...

I did also find this in wiki re "Church memorials" (which I hadn't realized is a specific referent rather than a generic one that Herbert had used - although not clear whether the phrase had this specific meaning in his day - and even this meaning is 'flexible' according to wiki):

Church monuments – within a church (or tomb-style chests in a churchyard) may be places of interment, but this is unusual; they more commonly stand over the grave or burial vault rather than containing the actual body and are therefore not tombs -- <link>




from The Times Online: <link>

and - lo and behold - Arundel Tomb has its own wiki site - <link> - complete with photos of the sculpture/tomb in question ...

An Arundel Tomb
by Philip Larkin

Side by side, their faces blurred,
The earl and countess lie in stone,
Their proper habits vaguely shown
As jointed armour, stiffened pleat,
And that faint hint of the absurd —
The little dogs under their feet.

Such plainness of the pre-baroque
Hardly involves the eye, until
It meets his left-hand gauntlet, still
Clasped empty in the other; and
One sees, with a sharp tender shock,
His hand withdrawn, holding her hand.

They would not think to lie so long.
Such faithfulness in effigy
Was just a detail friends would see:
A sculptor’s sweet commissioned grace
Thrown off in helping to prolong
The Latin names around the base.

They would not guess how early in
Their supine stationary voyage
The air would change to soundless damage,
Turn the old tenantry away;
How soon succeeding eyes begin
To look, not read. Rigidly they

Persisted, linked, through lengths and breadths
Of time. Snow fell, undated. Light
Each summer thronged the glass. A bright
Litter of birdcalls strewed the same
Bone-riddled ground. And up the paths
The endless altered people came,

Washing at their identity.
Now, helpless in the hollow of
An unarmorial age, a trough
Of smoke in slow suspended skeins
Above their scrap of history,
Only an attitude remains:

Time has transfigured them into
Untruth. The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be
Their final blazon, and to prove
Our almost-instinct almost true:
What will survive of us is love.

From The Whitsun Weddings by Philip Larkin

Re: A couple of points...
by falcon

Angels age, reversed thunder. Yeah! That's one I hadn't read before, but will want to read again.

Cheers.

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