Canada is single everything health care.

Provincial governments build the hospitals, operate the hospitals, collect taxes and insurance premiums (in some provinces), employ everyone who works in the health care industry, decides which procedures are covered, has the sole ability to do anything about (often ridiculously lengthy) waiting lists, and makes it illegal for private citizens to seek treatment in a timely manner that might save their lives.

If you want a health-care system that costs your state government 33%-50% of every dollar it takes in. Where you have to wait several weeks to see a specialist after your GP removes a suspicious growth. Where you may or may not have access to proper cancer care. But where your sick dog can have a same-day MRI, then go ahead - adopt the Canadian model.

If you can't distinguish between the freedom to seek treatment that could prolong or improve your life - even if that sometimes costs you everything you have in terms of material possessions - and the right to die in queue, then you deserve our crappy health care system.

Please be honest! Right now I am not in charge of my health care. Together with my employer I pay, up front, about $10,000 a year for my health care. And the insurance company is in charge. I have to wait for their approval on just about everything beyond an initial visit. I do not feel in charge right now at all.

You can forget the comment above and get a more accurate picture here:

Canadian and American health care systems compared

Health Care Comparison: Universal versus US Style Systems (Income Tax Differences)

Health Care Comparison: Universal versus US Style Systems (Public Spending on Health Care in Ontario and Quebec)

Health Care Comparison: Universal versus US Style Systems (Various Topics: Insurance Coverage, Wait Times, Cost Management, Recommended Health Care System for the US)

Most of what the OP says is simply untrue. The government does not employ everyone that works for the Canadian health care system. Doctors offices and clinics are all privately owned and operated, and many hospitals are private as well (for-profit and non-profit) The only real difference between the American and Canadian system is that the provincial governments act as the sole health insurance companies. Canada has private insurance companies too, but these provide for disability, death, dental, and out-of-hospital drug benefits.

It is true that some of these governments have decided not to cover certain procedures when other less-costly ones are available, and there are sometimes minor user-fees tacked on for certain things that are deemed not strictly "medical". However, the Canada Health Act insures that everyone is covered, anywhere in Canada, for all medical needs.

Personally I'd rather my government spend 40% of it's revenue on Health Care as opposed to military misadventures, pork spending, etc. Under single-payer, this money goes directly to the health and welfare of Canadian citizens and none is lost to a bloated private insurance bureaucracy, which makes it the kind of expenditure citizens ought to want more of.

Wayhey: "It is true that some of these governments have decided not to cover certain procedures when other less-costly ones are available"

Good post Wayhey, I only have to add a reminder that private insurers in the US also don't cover procedures when there are less costly ones available, the main difference is that they take very long to approve them, and sometimes they'll attempt to get out of paying for them and try to drop you so they can keep all the profits from the expensive premiums you and your employer paid over the year, and not fork over anything for your health care....

You don't have that problem in Canada, or in any other single payer system, or in Medicare. (by the way, less costly procedures are often the safest ones, they are usually less invasive and their success rates are greater than newer ones)

Canada's health care - what it is, what it isn't - is irrelevant. None of House, Senate or White House are proposing anything remotely like the Canadian or any European system of health care.

Why continue to waste time talking about it?

It's only if Americans want a cheaper, more efficent, non-profit, moral, health care system that there's any point looking at what is done elsewhere in the world. Clearly, Americans have no interest in any of that commie stuff.

islanderartvandelay wrote: If you want a health-care system that costs your state government 33%-50% of every dollar it takes in.

And yet if we went to the Canadian system we would spend massively less money than we do now.

(Supposedly, about 16% of GDP for US, 11% of GDP for Canada.)

It would appear, certainly from a cost perspective, that your horribly expensive system (I'm assuming that's what you mean when you talk about how much it costs?) costs vastly less than we pay for our system here.

Thank you for the stats, eh?

I'm thoroughly uninformed regarding all the factors involved in our health system. I know we pay too damn much and our health stats put us in worse shape than most industrialized nations. I know our insurance company system is based on profits for the shareholders of the companies involved - what's left for them after the ceos and other top-feeders take their cuts (we have news on the banking front recently that some bonuses given were actually larger than the entire profit of the bank for that given year..... yes yes, banking, not insurance...) -- based on profits rather than taking care of customers, yes, the much-vaunted US (supposed) free market system for frigging health care.

I know that insurance companies work hard, but that hard work is applied to denying people coverage wherever they can, including finding ways to dump people off their plans when they suddenly require assistance for things like expensive illnesses that will cost them a lot of money to cover - and that the so-called costs of insurance include this hefty bill for finding ways to deny coverage.

Also included in these costs are massive amounts of money spent to stop anyone from bettering the system at the expense of these money-sucking insurance companies (along with pharma, medical equipment manufacturers, hospitals and, yes, doctors) and monies thusly put into the pockets of whomever can facilitate this maintaining of the status quo - e.g., so called representatives of the people (us...).

One thing seems apparent to me in your post, and that is that complaining about how much the Canadian system costs really cracks one up in comparison to what we pay here in the US, all the more so in relation to the health care supplied for that cost.

again, as a canadian, you guys have to stop posting crap like that top poster. Its so out to lunch its unreal.

I cant believe the bullshit and propoganda i hear in the US about canadian healthcare. Crazy.

The only thing I trust from Salon is "Ask the Pilot". Everything else is trash.

Clearly, Americans have no interest in any of that commie stuff.

Oh yes we do.

The problem is the system of government. While a president can be elected on a mandate of fixing the health care system, it is Congress which enacts legislation. The number of committees that first have to recommend and then debated and voted on by the whole houses...all while severely lobbied by the very powerful lobby interests both ideological and self-interested corporations...sometimes can be at odds with the presidential mandate and in fact the essence of democracy. 

One might say that one can vote the anti-mandate forces out. Easier said than done especially the senate and it would take between 6-12 years. The position that the Dems are in today may not be achieved again for a very long time. It is ironic that it is some within that party who are providing the braking currently based on the very fear you mentioned.

It amazes me that the rich and powerful United States cannot provide adequate health care to all its citizens. Defenders of the current system have some pretty strange notions about what American style health care should be, I would question who is behind the fear-mongering, because your for-profit system is seriously flawed and unequitable.

Imagine this: For complete, basic, health care protection (not dental) you pay between $54 - $108/Cdn mo, usually deducted off your paycheque. If you are a low income family, your monthly payments are virtually nothing. (Also, some provinces charge no monthly fee.) You have a medical card. You can go to your family doctor or numerous (privately operated) medical clinics any time for any reason. You pay nothing for basic, necessary health care. You do not lie awake at night wondering if some major illness is going to destroy you and your family through denied coverage. People working in larger companies full time generally have supplemental coverage through Blue Cross etc. which covers partial dental, eyeglasses etc. Those without Blue Cross do pay for prescriptions, sometimes this is recoverable depending on your income. You may have to wait for non-emergency medical treatment (there are wait lists ie hip replacement). There are private MRI services available for the rich. (We call this two-tier health care and it is a challenge to the somewhat sacred Canada Health Act, but proponents argue that it reduces pressure on existing services.)

The bottom line: our health care system is strained/not perfect, but it works. Serious cases get priority treatment. Canadians have peace of mind from knowing: 1. they are covered; 2: everyone is covered.
BTW, gay and lesbian families are recognized and treated exactly the same as straight families, in health care and in all government services (except for blood donation and some US-based private insurers).

Just imagine!

Hear hear, Davester.

For some reason - and I take it to be self-interest on the one hand and absurd ideology on the other - we have people who basically point to problems here and there in other systems as the complete failure of those other systems.

The logic being foisted on us, and unfortunately bought by too many in my opinion, is that since other systems are not quite Heaven, we should really stick with our system even tho it is Hell.

You are indeed fortunate. In trying to educate myself on your system, I also found that there are detractors of your system (notably conservatives...why am I not surprised!) who would like to institute privatized health care beyond what is available. Another fallacy that is perpertrated here is that doctors work for the government when this is patently untrue. They are private individuals who get paid as per a fee schedule for specific activities they perform with a patient. This schedule I understand is negotiated between your medical association and the government. Amazingly logical to my point of view if one wants to keep a lid on costs and ensure equal treatment to everybody. The doctors are as well not inhibited in anyway from assigning any tests or treatment deemed necessary.

Like the poster I was replying to (whose post though sarcastic was entirely correct), it is unfortunate that so many of the citizenry have this irrational and ultimately illiterate notion of socialism-creep if there is any government intrusion in this area. Of course they do not mind that other necessary requirements such as highways, social security or education for example could not exist equitably countrywide without the federal govt. assistance. The US economy is a large one and about 20% of it they say revoves around healthcare. That is a lot of money. One can see why those who have large slices of that pie do not want to give it up. As I said before, ideology, politics and greed are a toxic mix which makes for a break in the stranglehold which only a high sense of commitment by the President and an understanding of the financial reality going forward (in about 20 years) if nothing is changed.

ps...that ad we see of the Canadian patient who felt hard done by the system actually had a cyst...not a tumor. While a serious matter, that it was being presented as a cancer it was actually a benign growth. The ad was also funded by some very very rich people with connections to the health industry. This is what we have to deal with alongwith the unconscionable rhetoric that the new system will institute euthanasia for the elderly in order to save costs.

Its also a very large country. Stay tuned.