So now some people are claiming Clinton can't get out from under Obama, but during the campaign it was all about how they'd never get along.

Clinton will, I honestly believe, go down in history as very good Sect. of State. I believe she's only going to get better. Of course, world events are going to shape her legacy as much or more than she herself is going to be able to, but still.

Clinton wants a legacy, her own legacy, not a footnore to her husbands presidency. As a result, she's not going to be stupid in her service, not to elected office, and not to appointed office.

Picking Clinton as for State was one of, if not the, smartest moves Obama has made since announcing his campaign in 2006.

to Obama. He's the boss! What am I missing?

Long live the Empire!

Clinton will, I honestly believe, go down in history as very good Sect. of State. I believe she's only going to get better. Of course, world events are going to shape her legacy as much or more than she herself is going to be able to, but still.

let's see. she gets humiliated by her husband who she can't even trust, he lies to her and she believes him, she them finds out she was duped, throws ashtrays and tea sets at him (as she noted in that book she didn't write) and we're supposed to believe she has a handle on iran and n. korea?

i don't think so.

So lemme get this straight Irv: your view is that anyone who has ever had a rocky patch in their marriage, or who has ever been cheated on, can no longer be trusted to deal and interact with the world in a fruitful manner?! Wow, that's an awful lot of people who should give up the ghost and accept that they are now completely useless members of society!

So lemme get this straight Irv: your view is that anyone who has ever had a rocky patch in their marriage, or who has ever been cheated on, can no longer be trusted to deal and interact with the world in a fruitful manner?!

a rocky patch. now that is funny!!!

But here's the upside, Irv. After 30+ years of marital humiliation at the hands of Golden Billy, there nothing the world's tyrants can dish at her which would phase her.

Ya know Irv, it's amazing how history moves on day-by-day and just keeps proving what an idiot you are. Hillary proved today she's no fool. She sent Billie to North Korea. Probably said, "Here, you take care of this Bush mess. Chelsea and I are going to Europe."

What Korean "Bush mess"?

It is jaw-dropping, staggering that Obama would even dream of letting Billy anywhere near North Korea, that the American people are so easily fooled by media events like Albright's dance with the dictator in Ponyang to be fooled into thinking he was successful there.

Bill Clinton is the Father of the North Korean Bomb. They should name their first fully capable nuclear missile The Bubba.

The Agreed Framework literally jumpstarted the North Korean nuclear weapons program. There has never been a more inept act of American statecraft in history. It achieved the exact opposite of what it intended.

We discovered a few years ahead of Bush how deeply fooled and taken we were by Jong Il, how wildly naive the program was.

All Dumbya did was ignore lil' Kim. At least he didn't make things worse.

I was under the impression EarlyBird, that Clinton's diplomacy forestalled the imminent iniation of a process towards a Korean nuclear weapon, and that, after Bush renounced this agreement, the North re-activated their programme and, lo and behold, developed said weapon.

Incidentally, Bush did an awful lot more than just ignore Kim.

Ps: The two reporters have just been pardoned, so I s'pose Clinton has been useful afterall.

I give Clinton credit for engaging NK when it looked like it was going nuclear. It was smart, even wise, to try to make things work with that country. But the way he went about it was so very naive as to be wildly counter-productive.

It is not an exagerration to state that the Agreed Framework was one of the biggest benefits to North Korea's nuclear weapons program. We asked them to stop building nuclear energy plants which produced weapons-grade material, and gave them building materials for plants that would only produce energy. Jong Il sold those materials on the black market, and never stopped building his weapons-grade producing plants. We gave him billions of US dollars, cold cash, to feed the starving NK people and put that towards building peaceable nuclear energy plants, as well as tons of heating oil. He sold the oil and used the cash to further enrich and strengthen his regime, and further continue his weapons program.

We received absolutely NOTHING in that bargain. Jong Il got their nukes program off to a solid start, got much needed cash, further strengthened its grip on power and received the benefit of looking like a respectable government on the world stage.

What angers me so much is not even Clinton's ineptness, but that it is not recognized as such. I guess because we staged a PR event where it looked like peace and cooperation, rather than calling them names like the "Axis of Evil," that is enough for people to call it a success. My God, if that is a success, what's a failure?

What's a failure? The Bush family ever being allowed near the White House. All Clinton did yesterday was land, talk, and come home with those two young journalists. The slimeball was probably ogleing them all the way home, but hey, they are now free, and it seems to me, actions speak much louder than words - just as an aside here - The "Axis of Evil" tripe was some of the stupidest foreign policy ever uttered by a President. It's only equal was "Job well done" on the deck of the USS Lincoln.

My criticism of Clinton's disastrous NK nuclear policy is not to defend Bush in any way. For the record, I consider George Bush to be perhaps the most disastrous president in US history, certainly in modern history.

I just want to defend sanity and history. Bush's calling NK names had absolutely nothing to do with them obtaining nuclear weapons. Clinton's Agreed Framework has practically everything to do with NK obtaining nuclear weapons. It was clear for years before Bush that NK was totally abrogating that agreement had hoodwinked the US. So when Bush got in, the last thing he was going to do was rush to Jong Il for another round of talks, rightly or wrongly.

Clinton's agreement was so inept that it ended up physically aiding and abetting NK's nuclear weapons development. Calling them "Axis of Evil" didn't.

It just drives me crazy that people blame Bush for NK's nukes, and consider Clinton's policy successful. It's like blaming Obama for the economy he inherited.

irvingchang:

So lemme get this straight Irv: your view is that anyone who has ever had a rocky patch in their marriage, or who has ever been cheated on, can no longer be trusted to deal and interact with the world in a fruitful manner?!

a rocky patch. now that is funny!!!

do you have a wife big boy? can't imagine that she has a mind of her own with you in charge. where did you find her? a monastery?