is that that there should be as close to zero abortions performed each year as possible, as the simple act that goes into an abortion is a disgrace to all things human.

It is good to see both sides working together to try and reduce the numbers of terminated fetuses or babies depending on your outlook.

Now, if only I can convince my liberal friend that if a woman should have the CHOICE to end the life of an unborn fetus/baby, that I should have the CHOICE to use a voucher to send my kids to a school of my choice, things would be groovy.

Some folks only seem to be Pro CHOICE for certain kinds of choices and not others though.

All vouchers are is a way to abandon the public schools in favor of poorly run religious schools that don't teach about sex ed and evolution.

If you have a real complaint about your kids school, the best way to fix it is to GET INVOLVED. Believe me, at most schools, the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

If you don't want your kids to learn about sex ed or Evolution, I have no problem with letting the m spend those periods in the study hall. But, universal public education is the single best way to develop a common national character and identity. If you split that into anything goes then you have thousands of disparte voices all barking nonsense.

One thing as absolutely nothing to do with the other thing. I want the choice to park my car in the middle of the Golden Gate Bridge too. Do you support my 'choice'? Right now you absolutely have the choice to send your kids to any schools you want. You just want the tax payer to subsidize the private school of your choice. Many of these private schools are run by churches. Don't you tink it's a problem when the taxpayers are asked to subsidize churches?

Those "poorly run religious" schools produce students who perform better academically than those from public schools. Perhaps instead of teaching kids how to have sex, they focus on such topics like history, mathematics, reading, writing, etc.

All vouchers are is a way to abandon the public schools in favor of poorly run religious schools that don't teach about sex ed and evolution.

No.

If you have a real complaint about your kids school, the best way to fix it is to GET INVOLVED. Believe me, at most schools, the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

LOL- if you belive that I have a bridge to sell. we have been tring to fix plublic schools for 30 years. it seems that always want more money for lower and lower performance.

But, universal public education is the single best way to develop a common national character and identity. If you split that into anything goes then you have thousands of disparte voices all barking nonsense.

Well ok Comrade Lumpy. So much for diversity eh.

You just want the tax payer to subsidize the private school of your choice. Many of these private schools are run by churches. Don't you tink it's a problem when the taxpayers are asked to subsidize churches?

On the whole I agree with you on the church/state issue. But, there is always a but, the problem is that many private schools are secular as well. In addition many places do not allow vouchers for charter schools either which are public. The fact of the matter is that public schools have failed and have trapped parents in poor performing schools with no option to leave, not even to go to better performing public schools. I am sensitive to the church state/issue but I also know that many states including the Fed gives money to these organizations. I think if there are no secular schools near where you live it is acceptible for people under a certain income level to get a voucher to a private religious school. We do allow tax money to be used for student loans and grants to religious colleges, I do not see the problem by extending that to K-12.

Where do you get the idea that 'public schools have failed'? The only failing public schools are in the inner city/ and or other poor neighborhood. Schools in the more well off areas are doing perfectly fine.

Your local school is actually democracy in action.The school boards are all democratically elected. The curriculum is dictated by the school board. The budget is dictated by the school board. The local property tax is assessed by your local county. If your local schools are failing- you are part of that failure. If you have a problem with democracy then maybe this is the wrong country for you.

Yes, like the one my best friend went to. Where they taught him that the earth was only 6000 years old and that using a condom caused aids.

Yes, that was an awesome institution.

I do agree that there are religious institutions that do an excellent job of educating their students. However, they are, by and large, not the ones that vouchers would allow you to get your kid into. The kind my friend went to is.

gunsmoke:

No.

So glad you could bring something to the discussion.

gunsmoke:

LOL- if you belive that I have a bridge to sell. we have been tring to fix plublic schools for 30 years. it seems that always want more money for lower and lower performance.

Really? when was the last time you went to a PTA meeting? How about the last time you volunteered to tutor or help out at a local school event? Do you even know the names of your school board members? Ever pay them a visit?

gunsmoke:

Well ok Comrade Lumpy. So much for diversity eh.

Let's see, every single industrialized country in the world has free, universal education. So, how exactly does this make me a communist? You seem to have had some indoctrination, though. You use the same idiot sound bites that every other political hack knows by rote.

Those "poorly run religious" schools produce students who perform better academically than those from public schools. Perhaps instead of teaching kids how to have sex, they focus on such topics like history, mathematics, reading, writing, etc.

This is not true of charter schools. Such schools perform at the same level or worse than public schools. Where you see exceptions is mostly due to situations where charter schools can be selective of what students they enroll and retain.

There are many more examples that are available, but here's one:

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I don't think that "there should be as close to zero abortions performed each year" bcause it is disgraceful. Most abortions occur at early stages of fetal development and the fetus can't really be considered a living being at all. I have more concerns about abortions that longer the pregnancy continues but I have to trust that they are being done for good reasons. A large percentage of pregnancies end spontaneously and we call them miscarriages. Is that disgraceful? I am grateful that lots of methods are available that allow us to control whether or not we will have children.

Good posts icemilkcoffee. The first place we should look to improving public schools is in the way they are funded by local taxes. This discrepancy in funding is the reason why rich mostly white suburbs have excellent public schools, while poor inner city minority districts are falling apart.

kenyon19:

Some folks only seem to be Pro CHOICE for certain kinds of choices and not others though.

Well, yeah. To believe otherwise would simply be absurd. I should be able to choose what I eat for dinner. I shouldn't be able to choose what type of human beings I want to own. (And I guess if what I choose to eat people, then I don't get to have that choice either....) Society doesn't work if every single choice is allowed for every single activity. I agree we should maximize the number of choices a person has, but we should not do so at the expense of the choices of other individuals.

kenyon19:

I should have the CHOICE to use a voucher to send my kids to a school of my choice, things would be groovy.

You do. You can pay for your child to attend the private school of your choice. You can also choose to homeschool. What you don't get to have is the choice to opt out paying for the public educational system via vouchers because that slowly errodes one of things necessary for civilized life. Namely, everyone should have the opportunity to receive a basic education.

There are some private, religious and charter schools that do an excellent job of educating their students.

However, the vouchers that so many folks want so badly will not pay the tuition to those schools. Typically, school vouchers would go to a lower tier, for profit, educational facility that is geared towards the ideology of the parent.

As I said in another post. The single best way to improve the educational system in this country is to be an active and involved parent and/or tax payer.

Vouchers are nothing more than a way to fund religious instruction at the tax payers expense.

Generally, the reason why private school students school higher on tests is because the private schools can pick and choose what students they take/keep, while public schools have a mandate to accept everyone, even the kid whose mother is addicted to crystal meth and whose father is serving 15 to life.

My niece went to a private religious school for a few years. And yes, they taught her that evolution was a myth. They even made her sing songs about not being "descended from a monkey", even though that isn't what the theory of evolution says. When she transferred to public school, I had to tutor her in biology to get her caught up.

BTW, does can anyone name a public school where students are taught "how to have sex"? I wish I had gone to one of those. Might have made prom night a lot less awkward. LOL.