The American people don't know that the president knows why healthcare is expensive. The devil is in the details and nobody believes congress or the president understand them in order to effectively deal with the problem. Less so being able to regulate in a manner that focuses marketplace efficiencies. What government seems to be doing is re-writing healthcare in its image: ham handed, fat, and rationed.

The same parade of cliches, again and again. You have no detailed disagreement with Obama; you just don't want public healthcare. What you don't seem to understand is that the current system has failed.

Like a would be follower of a populist dictator you don't see that there is nothing detailed by the president (or congress) to disagree with.

I've posted detailed ideas here and passed them on to reps and maybe even an Obama website. If they want to be believed that they are doing good work they have to cspan ALL the meetings and not just the regular meaningless tripe press offerings you swallow believing they are even remotely detailed enough to express governmental competence in this matter.

You really want to watch all the committee meetings? Were you this much of a masochist during the years when the repugs ruled congress?

Legislation is a messy process, especially when the parties are as polarized as they have become, due to the neocon putsch that began in 1992. The senate would be more competent to address this matter if its primary healthcare expert, Tom Daschle, hadn't been replaced by savage nutbag Thune, whose one great idea has been allowing concealed carry everywhere, and to hell with states' rights.

Obama seems determined to avoid the kind of confrontation politics the Bush presidency enjoyed, but I wish he'd take off the gloves in dealing with destructive jerks like DeMint and Thune, and the blue dog phonies who pretend to be desperately concerned with the deficit and whatnot, and are for the most part whores, owned and operated by the guys who write the big checks.

"Obama long ago said he wasn't a details man."

Then what does that make him? A snake oil salesman? Why are so many so in love with this guy? What are his great big ideas? I just never got it at all.

He doesn't know the details of the bill that he's trying to rush through? I'm sorry but doesn't that make him an insane moron?

I've been reading a lot of threads lately, and I've noticed 2 things a) the liberals don't have much specific to say about this bill, that would completely change the American way of life, and what it should be and how it should work and b) they keep bringing up racism over and over again.

"Legislation is a messy process, especially when the parties are as polarized as they have become, due to the neocon putsch that began in 1992."

Yes, legislation is messy, so give the president a break for not knowing wtf his own plan is, and it's Bush's fault. Good one.

"TOO BAD HE DIDN'T PAY HIS GODAM TAXES! And if I'm allowed to defend myself in PA then why not NJ? Did you ever stop to notice that the right to carry states always have lower crime? Been to Jersey City lately?

"Obama seems determined to avoid the kind of confrontation politics the Bush presidency enjoyed,"

Yeah, the kind where you know what you think and try to stand up for it.

"but I wish he'd take off the gloves in dealing with destructive jerks like DeMint and Thune,"

But he wont'.

"and the blue dog phonies who pretend to be desperately concerned with the deficit and whatnot,"

Yeah, what kind of asshole cares about deficit spending?

" and are for the most part whores, owned and operated by the guys who write the big checks."" They are democrats after all.

Market efficiencies? The market has proven very inefficient with regards to heath care - inefficient at costs, inefficient at delivery. However, the profits have been spectacular.

What you don't seem to understand is that the current system has failed.

we have the best medical care ion the world in this country. there may need to be some adjustments made, but to say the system has failed is a load of crises mongering horse shit by yet another little socialist creep who want to use health care as a way to control everyones life.

Market efficiencies? The market has proven very inefficient with regards to heath care - inefficient at costs, inefficient at delivery. However, the profits have been spectacular.

To the advocates of the market, spectacular profits are the only evidence they need to know that the market is efficient.

"To the advocates of the market, spectacular profits are the only evidence they need to know that the market is efficient."

If my health care sucked I'd say so. It doesn't. A lot of people are in fact happy with thiers. It's not that thats all there is to know, we just don't demonize them for it in a knee jerk way.

If all health care was great, nobody would be complaining. But millions are complaining. Nice that you got yours Sigmond. Shame that's all you care about.

sigmond:

"To the advocates of the market, spectacular profits are the only evidence they need to know that the market is efficient."

If my health care sucked I'd say so. It doesn't. A lot of people are in fact happy with thiers. It's not that thats all there is to know, we just don't demonize them for it in a knee jerk way.

Now it's "demonizing" to notice flaws in America's current healthcare system? I'd say it's merely realistic. Of course "realistic" probably seems quite demonic to those who consider Republican-style healthcare to be wonderful.

oxboggle:

The same parade of cliches, again and again. You have no detailed disagreement with Obama; you just don't want public healthcare. What you don't seem to understand is that the current system has failed.

Failed how? A few people slip through the cracks. Obama's plan doesn't change that unless he forces a single payer system. The choice seems to be between a high quality healthcare for most Americans vs low quality care for all Americans. There are plenty of people who like their insurance as is and fear losing it due to this plan. then there are people who just do not like the idea of government control of your healthcare.

Now it's "demonizing" to notice flaws in America's current healthcare system? I'd say it's merely realistic. Of course "realistic" probably seems quite demonic to those who consider Republican-style healthcare to be wonderful.

Is your critical thinking as simplistic and pedantic as it reads. 84 year old prostate cancer patients do not present the problem in a rationed system caused by cost/price compression what do you do with the producers? If 50 year old small business owner with a diseased gall bladder will be laying off staff if treatment is "get in line" if he is to ill to work. Your personal assessment of any flaws is a fallacious argument based upon zero analysis. If "republican-style" health care gave us the system and technologies we have today that is brilliant. It gives you fools the capacity to even contemplate the fate of an 84 year old with cancer. Otherwise you'd be arguing for the ban on use of stone wheels on carts versus carrying food on your head. Whatever you deem as realistic needs to be examined for its content. Produce something

fpassarelli:

Now it's "demonizing" to notice flaws in America's current healthcare system? I'd say it's merely realistic. Of course "realistic" probably seems quite demonic to those who consider Republican-style healthcare to be wonderful.

Is your critical thinking as simplistic and pedantic as it reads. 84 year old prostate cancer patients do not present the problem in a rationed system caused by cost/price compression what do you do with the producers? If 50 year old small business owner with a diseased gall bladder will be laying off staff if treatment is "get in line" if he is to ill to work. Your personal assessment of any flaws is a fallacious argument based upon zero analysis. If "republican-style" health care gave us the system and technologies we have today that is brilliant. It gives you fools the capacity to even contemplate the fate of an 84 year old with cancer. Otherwise you'd be arguing for the ban on use of stone wheels on carts versus carrying food on your head. Whatever you deem as realistic needs to be examined for its content. Produce something

Actually, I'm an advocate of The Wheel and other modern inventions. Heck! I can even get icewater out of my refrigerator door. So, I'm really not the Luddite you seem to imagine I am. And jeeze! I really dislike the long waits I currently have to get a doctor's appointment -- and the rather shoddy "defensive" duplicative testing that seems to substitute sometimes for clinical care. Would those waits diminish under an alternative healthcare system? I couldn't promise that, especially since we have not seen an actual plan yet. I merely state that the current system is RIDDEN with the exact problems you're claiming would be newly introduced if we modified the status quo in any way.

We certainly should be evaluating the public healthcare systems that exist in other countries, and trying to figure out what parts would work for us here. So far as I've seen, those parts of the developed world that have a public healthcare system have better public health than the USA -- at least, according to measurements like longevity, infant mortality, elderly care, and others. Equally telling is "the dog that doesn't bark". I haven't heard an groundswell of anger against the healthcare systems of Western Europe, for example. For all the outrage Republicans have goosed up against our neighbor, Canada, I don't see any serious political force in that country to get a healthcare system on the model of ours. Go figger.