Why isn't there any movement to overthrow them? Britain and Canada were both democracies, last I heard, so they should be able to scrap this awful national health care system and replace it with our own for-profit medical care. SO far, I have not heard of any efforts to do so.

Im a Canadian that has lived and worked in both the US and canada.

The canadian system is fantastic. Dont believe the propoganda. My #1 fear when i was working in the US was getting sick.

People say canadians get taxed alot higher then the US. This is true. However when i hear health insurance for a family of 4 in the US will cost you $10k + per year, if you add that in, its a whole different story.

Good luck!

I heard a radio interview on this from a Senator who practiced medicine in Britain, sorry I forgot his name. Anyway, in Britan he said the reason they are okay with the crappy care is that eveyone gets the same level of crappy care. Its not a big deal cause there is no disparity of coverage. Looking at it that way, that is exactly why we are "overthrowing the system" because of percieved gaps or disparity.

I do have to agree with the the article on the cultural influences of different countries. The example of not giving automatic PSA tests for men in their fifties-does this mean less cases of prostate issues in Britan because people aren't even being diagonsed. How can you compare that to the USA where that is standard testing. Won't our rates potentially be much higher? My mother lived in Korea for some years and she told me that for a Korean woman to smoke was taboo and just not done and in no way was it done in public. Here we are free to smoke or not. Does that add to our smoking related illnesses and do they have less because of that. If so, then its hard to compare health rates across countries that have different cultural values.We can guess they dont have the obesity problems we have. So there may be some validity to the idea that a uniquely American system needs to be developed and it may not be cost comparative to other countries.

The senator, or whoever he was, was wrong or lying. Britons simply do not consider their healthcare system "crappy." The leader of the Conservative party frequently praises the NHS, and he is wealthy enough to have private insurance, which about 5% of the population of the UK do.

I'd be interested in having a knowledgeable person explain the Canadian system. Many people here on the Fray have praised the Canadian health care system. But one hears that healthy young adults are having to wait 2-3 years to be assigned a doctor, and hears about people on months-long waiting lists to see a specialist to get tests or treatment. I have a friend in Michigan who is a radiologist who treats a lot of Canadians who feel they can not wait for months until they get to the front of the line for tests to confirm suspected cancer or to receive treatment. When one offers such examples, the response of those who favor a Canadian-style system is that the criticisms are all "anecdotal" (and therefore, not relevant, presumably). I also read of a Canadian court ruling recently which took the Government to task for failure to actually deliver medical care. The words, as I recall, were, "Access to a waiting list does not constitute access to health care."

It would be refreshing, as we discuss our own health care reform to have the facts: How is the Canadian system supposed to work and how well does it actually work? Can anyone explain?

eofiss:

The senator, or whoever he was, was wrong or lying. Britons simply do not consider their healthcare system "crappy." The leader of the Conservative party frequently praises the NHS, and he is wealthy enough to have private insurance, which about 5% of the population of the UK do.

If our healthcare system gets administered by the government, do you think that the government employee responsible for it overall is going to say it's BAD? Do you think England's would?

Then why do the Candaians and Brits live longer and have lower infant mortality rates? (WHO)

Of course, the Conservatives are in the minority, so it's foolish to say Cameron is in any way "responsible" for it. The reason he praises it it is either 1) the experiences with the system he's had when he had a terminally ill son, which were apparently overwhelmingly positive, or 2) attacking the NHS is political suicide, because of its popularity. Either way, it gives lie to the statements realted by the "senator".

The point illustrated by the article demonstrates one reason. The English doctor was pretty obviously right, considering that the man had never sought treatment for the "old injury," ignored the American doctor's referral, and finally went with a treatment that would not liekly be offered by a National Health Service, or covered by an HMO.

Sure a conservative MP would certainly be free to criticize the National Health System unless he thinks that it would be poltically unpopular to say so. But he probably understands that open hostility to the NHS is a political "third rail", equivalent to dumping on Social Security in the US.

If only 5% have private insurance, wouldn't that mean that the other 95% are satisfied with the NHS?

I have a classmate who has been a nurse in Winnipeg since 1987. I asked her about the Canadian system at our 30 year reunion in 2006. She said it is great as long as you don't have anything serious wrong with you. She said if she had cancer, she would probably go to the US for treatment. I asked her about the wait times. She said they have addressed wait times and there has been improvement. I told her I called a dermatoligist here and was told that unless I was an existing client, the wait would be 3 months. She did say that wait times are big problem in some provinces. She also said there is a critical shortage of intensive care units and doctors in certain specialties, but I can't remember which ones.

sharkhunt,

Here is an example of what you are talking about:

Let’s Compare Public and Private Health Care Costs, Eh?

Fryde67

A description of Canadian health care system, along with various other comments, appears in "pkoscuke" postings, in prescriptions strand for June 27. If interested you could access this in the advanced search option on Fray re those postings on that date.

"But one hears that healthy young adults are having to wait 2-3 years to be assigned a doctor..."

That's just wrong. Canadians are not "assigned" doctors by the gov't. In fact they're freer to choose their doctors than Americans on PPOs. Doctors do not work for the gov't.

Though this is slightly out of date (Canadians can purchase secondary insurance and services now I believe) Ezra Klein's piece on the Canadian System is good.

Canada care is unapologetic, no-holds-barred single-payer. The single-payer, by the way, is not Canada as a whole, but each specific province, so it's not quite as monolithic as we think. It's financed by taxes, but the taxes vary from province to province, so there is a certain amount of variation in how the system pays its bills...

Care varies only according to province (and, assumedly, individual doctors and hospitals), not according to class. Interestingly, low-income Canadians actually receive more care than do the affluent, owing to the higher rates of disease in poorer communities...

In 1970, the year before Canada's health care system came online, Canada and the US spent about the same on health care, 7.2% and 7.4% of GDP respectively. By 1990, it was 9% and 11.9%. And by 2002, it was 9.6% and 14.6%. So while our health care spending shot up by 7.6% of GDP and still doesn't cover out citizenry, theirs had a 4.5% climb and got everyone in the goddamn country covered (remember: the first number is pre-universal health insurance)...

In any case, Canada's got some problems. Wait times for elective surgeries can suck real bad and, according to an LA Times article from April 10th, some folks do cross the border to speed things up. But vital procedures are done quicker and, amazingly, any Canadian can get any necessary surgery done that they want. If elective, it may take some time, but there's never a question over whether they'll be treated.

Here's a Canadian Gov't description of their system.

Canada's health care system has been a work in progress since its inception. Reforms have been made over the past four decades and will continue in response to changes within medicine and throughout society. The basics, however, remain the same - universal coverage for medically necessary health care services provided on the basis of need, rather than the ability to pay...

When Canadians need health care, they generally contact a primary health care professional, who could be a family doctor, nurse, nurse practitioner, physiotherapist, pharmacist, etc., often working in a team of health care professionals. Services provided at the first point of contact with the health care system are known as primary health care services and they form the foundation of the health care system.... Most doctors work in independent or group practices, and are not employed by the government. Some work in community health centres, hospital-based group practices, primary health care teams or are affiliated with hospital out-patient departments...

Many Canadians, either through their employers or on their own, are covered by private health insurance and the level of service provided varies according to the plan purchased...

Canada's labour costs are lower because employers do not have to fully fund employee health benefits; this gives businesses in Canada a competitive edge. The annual KPMG competitiveness report, which compares business costs in several industrialized countries, continues to find that Canada has lower business costs than the US, and the lowest total labour costs of the countries compared.

Canada stacks up pretty well in international comparisons. It is not socialized health care, it is a single payer insurance plan. It's not perfect, no system is, but it's not the nightmare that conservatives try to make it out to be. Speaking on an anecdotal level, my wife's step-father had heart trouble while visiting Canada and received treatment superior to what he got in his hometown hospital.

The Canadian system is a single payer ,private provider system with services delivered both by for profit and non profit organizations.

Canadians spend 55 percent of what Americans spend on health care and have a longer life expectancy and lower mortality rate.

"Studies suggest that 40 percent of US citizens and 5 percent of Canadian citizens lack adequate access to health care"

"Median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and Cat Scans is two weeks"

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