The carmakers have argued that it is "common sense" that an upright seat is much safer than a reclining one. Maybe I'm the only clueless one out there, but I don't think so.

These two sentences are supposed to be in logical opposition, I think. The impression I get is that Bazelon is saying, "I didn't realize this was a problem, therefore it is not common sense to realize it's a problem."

I think the right way to interpret them is, "it is common sense that a seat-belt across your stomach is dangerous. I did not understand that. I, and many other Americans, lack common sense." This is not news, did not warrant an article, and does not impose any requirements for warning labels.

I think an exact parallel is windows. Most cars these days are equipped with these devices, which I will explain for the benefit of folks like Emily Bazelon: they are hard clear flat objects which are commonly placed on doors and at the front of the car, allowing light but not wind or small objects to pass through. Glass also creates a "greenhouse effect" in a car when it's sitting in the sun, potentially roasting anyone who can't crack the windows, like a child or a dog. But there is no warning label to this effect on windows! Bazelon should get to work on that scandal. Instead of writing things.

Oh and yet I hear on the local news at least once a week that some halfwit has melted their kids, dogs, birds, groceries, etc. People are DUMB and apparentlaly need to be told about every little bitty possible problem or they will sue.

What interests me more is why do adults think they need to nap in the car anyhow? Where are all these people driving to and from that leaves them so drained, and why is the driver, who is undoutable just as tired, getting screwed out of a nap? We regularly travel a couple thousand miles for shopping and vacations and none of the adults sleep in the car, we actually use this time to talk, read and interact with the kids. Weird huh?

After seeing roadsigns, in the Oregon Cascades, that say "Do Not Pass Snow Plow On Right," I have become an advocate for tatooing "don't be stupid" on the inside of all newborns' eyelids. Then we can dispense with all of the warning labels.

My second favorite: The one on the gasoline-powered lawnmower that says "Do Not Place Hands In Here."

If it's simply "common sense" not to recline your seat while the car is in motion, then why do they recline at all? For all those folks who take naps in their parked cars? Emily is right, and the auto manufacturers are despicable.

"despicable," huh? Another poster had the best response to you, which I'll repeat: the driver's seat fully reclines, too. In your "mind," would you expect that to mean you can drive while fully reclined, too?

There's a tire iron in your car which is meant to remove the lug nuts from your tires. It is not intended for use while driving. I think I need to point that out to you.

I was at the state fair this weekend and looked at one of those giagantic RVs. Now here's a vehicle that the passenger can sleep in and not even be belted. There was also a television set right over the top of the windshield in clear view of the driver, no warnings here. This is a vehicle as big as a Semi that you can take out onto the road with the rest of us requiring no special license or training. Usually purchased by someone who is at the point in their life where their motor skills are waning. Is probably the largest vehicle they have ever operated. Want to tackle this one??

I agree completely. Using a laptop as a passenger is also dangerous. Drinking from a straw or glass bottle in a car is also dangerous. Do we really need warnings for everything? Why do U.S. adults want to be treated like children and then act like children when they suffer the consequences for poor decisions, "I didn't know that it wasn't safe to ride with my feet hanging out the window! Why didn't they put a warning in the manual or on the window? I am going to sue!" I guess we are a nation whose maturity (and sense of personal responsibility) is stunted. This article is not news and is embarrassing.

Hyperion, I could not have said it any better. Sick and tired of the nanny state and don't need anyone advocating more of it.

What is frightening is the thought that an adult lacking in the most fundamental, intuitive concept of motion and inertia so as to not realize that a seatbelt will not do much at all to restrain you in the event of a frontal collision if the seat is fully reclined is actually allowed out into the world without close supervision.

And probably someone should warn Ms. Bazelon not to have her head out of the window of an automobile while it's moving, lest she be decapitated..

Although I'm not convinced it would be a significant loss.

Um...not really because it doesn't have anthing to do with anything.

the safety concerns of car windows & leaving a child/animal inside a car is not an exact parallel to the safety concerns of a seat belt. for one, in many areas there are laws against leaving children [& often animals] inside a vehicle during inclement weather, even with windows rolled down.

laws, as in: there is a clear standard of rules, available for anyone to find out, fairly common knowledge, & consequences if you don't follow, even if nobody gets hurt.

there are no laws [that I am aware of] against people reclining passenger seats when a vehicle is in motion. hyperionred, you seem like a smart person, capable of intelligently analyzing the world & formulating your own opinions, so I'd like you to tell all the rest of us the common sense we are lacking. now, I'm not being facetious, but rather nonjudgmental & serious about this. you say vehicle seat positioning is common sense, but I think of the differences in seat position between myself at 5'6" tall, & my mother, who is 5'2" tall, & some of my tall friends, 6 feet, & even one who is close to 7 feet tall.

all of our seats will be positioned differently to sit comfortably & safely while riding as a passenger or a driver in a vehicle. we have less leeway when it comes to driver seat positioning. my mother & I must sit closer to the stearing wheel, which many of us know is more dangerous due to the air bag, but have no choice. my taller friends must sit farther away from the pedals & steering wheel, & must adjust the seat to lean back in order to allow for proper arm placement.

now, here's where it gets tricky: shoulder & lap belts aren't designed to accommodate non-averaged sized people, so taller & shorter people struggle w/proper placement. I often have problems w/shoulder belts running accross my neck, even when I adjust them as close to my shoulder as the vehicle will allow; you can imagine how this might fit my mother! this is very dangerous, & there isn't much I can do about it. depending on how my seat is adjusted so I can reach pedals, steering, my seat belt will sit differently, & this will also be different on a taller person.

so here's the kicker--if everyone adjusts their seats, & seat belts, as close as they can for safe driving, do we really know how safe it is if we have to make adjustments for our heights? would you like to know if you are driving in a safe car that is not safe for you because you must recline the seat at a 15 percent angle in order to fit properly? stranger things have been known to happen in vehicles, & w/o crash testing for this kind of compensation--how can that be common sense?

I personally am glad to have read this article. I think that the car manufacturers can do something so simple as to put a warning label on seat belts, seat backs, visors, just one visible place in the vehicle that everyone will read. It won't cost much, & they won't have to change anything about how they make cars, but then people will have the knowledge to make an educated decision since most people aren't as well thought out as the people who have posted in this forum.

If "ignorance of the law" is no excuse in court as it is up to every individual to know the law...not have someone tell it to them... then why would seat belt use be any different? It shouldn't be up to every Tom, Dick and Harry to explain operational use of items to individuals. And I too am sick of people letting their own laziness(reading an operation manual, etc) be an excuse to sue. I'm with you 100% hyperionred!

I agree with you datastarr, that some people, not realizing that their adjustments to be able to drive the car might be harmful, should they get into an accident.

Not everyone is familar with what the safety terms used to sell cars actually represent and in some cases those safety measures have been more dangerous than not. Not in the majority of car crashes, true, but enough that it doesn't seem surprising that car makers wouldn't want to take it upon themselves to fully explain the scope of the safety features.