Increased pace of attacks saves face for Iraqis because it shows the American were mere interlopers and that Iraq , while occupied, never was defeated; and that Iraq was always in charge of its own destiny. Think of the increased end game violence as a final "fuck you" to the infidels.

Increased pace of violence allows US forces ( effectively surrounded in their bases ) to say "see I told you so." A perverse form of schadenfreude spikes every time an innocent Iraqi national dies in violent circumstances. Watch for the grim play-by-play, on Fox Pravda epecially. In fact, the more Iraqis that kack, the more justification the US has to occupy the stay-behind bases that Pink Stick Cheney so covets. Some Cons still dare to hope we can maintain a presence in the vicinity of the oil fields and justify it on humanitarian grounds. That remains our end game.

So everyone believes they win through increasing the violence.. Except the soon to be dead. End of conflict slaughter is a wholly predictable outcome, at which no one should be shocked. Boehner and his ilk will be shocked as hell of course, for the sake of the precious Iraqi children...and their precious oil.

Reality is we still can't fully face up to what happened in Indo-China after we pulled out of Viet Nam. But it is still a damn good thing that we did pull out. . Rice still grows. Farmers farm. No VC sampans in San Francisco Bay.

Peace happens.

Oh come now. We both know that the Iraqi navy would soon be docking in VA if Bush hadnt pretended he had WMD.......when will you guys realize the very real threat posed by the middle east? Right now the Iranians are no doubt dividing up a map of Rhode Island between factions to convert to Islam...........

Good. At least we'll have a chance for someone other than the white man to be in power.

Can't wait to wear my burqua, and stay home to raise the children, cook, clean, pray five times a day, and not be allowed on the streets unless I'm accompanied by a man.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Well City Girl Im a pretty liberal person (no doubt) but I have to believe you would prefer things be your decision rather than a mans, white or otherwise. No one keeps you from living the traditional Muslim life here--you are free to wear the clothes, practice the religion, and not work but simply cook, clean, raise children provided of course you can find someone to pay the bills.

While I absolutely dont support US middle east policy and believe the people of these nations have the right to self determination, I wouldnt want the Taliban here imposing shariah on us and I doubt you would either at the end of the day.

The civil war and the civil rights movement have placed people of color in the position where they can determine their own paths now-Obama is hardly the first man of color to do great things and God willing he wont be the last.

The solution isnt to replace white men any more than it would be a solution to replace black men. Our planet has both and these days a good mixture of mixture too. Take what fate has handed us and do well with it.

Peace.

I'm wondering if citygurl104 is currently living in Iraq, because that's the only way I can see Iraqi politics having any impact on her whatsoever. The bottom line is that the military is a pretty shoddy tool for nation-building unless it's backed up by a bunch of other things that we didn't have going in to this situation, and especially given that we we've always been running on borrowed money, we probably achieved the best possible outcome among the many realistic possibilities there were. Although it would have been a lot better if we'd simply never gone in, it is long past time to exit stage left.

If, however, citygurl104 is living in the west, I have to add that among the more amusing strawmen from the right is the idea that liberal Americans, who as a rule tend to be more secular and socially progressive than their conservative cousins, secretly crave the imposition of Sharia Law. It's funny that we would take a break from supporting gay marriage, advocating for woman's rights and fighting for freedom from religion in the public sphere in order to support the establishment of theocratic fascism under which we would then have to live. That sounds perfectly plausible to me.

;-)

I'm not a person of color, but it's flattering that you thought I was.

Not.

And even more amusing Quill, is the idea that the liberal ideals are pushing us ever closer to socialist ideals and principles....social progressives and all. In the push for secularism and blindness to individual differences....it drives us ever closer towards being automatons and numbers in a data base. You see, holding one accountable and responsible means that you have to recognize that a person has the freedom to make those choices....and not have big government forced upon you in ways you don't want. You have to realize that life isn't fair...and how did Ben Franklin say it?...."The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

So, what do you want....socially progressive programs of a welfare state? Or the freedom to make even a bad decision?

Personally....I still appreciate having to lie down in the bed I made.

"it drives us ever closer towards being automatons and numbers in a data base."

Hate to break the news to you Rubma but thats generally what we are to a corporation as both a customer and as an employee. Good people are always being layed off to make an extra nickel for some lazy shareholder.

If you want to gripe about socialism you better offer something better than your belief that capitalism is rewarding those who work--Obamas success has a lot to do with the fact that uncontrolled capitalism has demonstrated it is easily corruptable and often rewards people who clearly dont earn their pay (like the bonus payments at many of these banks for instance).

You cannot talk about hard work being a key to success when the Madoff crowd owns the market.....

There are always exceptions to the rule....but that is still not an excuse to make us all the same. Hate to break it to you...but so far, I haven't seen socialism do much in spite of corruption either. It only tends to move from big business which we do have power over, to big government...in which we have surrendered our power over to. I can still opt to not purchase what a business is selling....what do I do about bad government after I have become dependent on it?

Business is what it is...and basically follows the same general principles. And we all understand that business is in the business of making money....its a simple rule. Government isn't any of that...and will still be able to fire your ass just as quick as any private business can....so how is it any better? You think welfare rewards people?..do they really 'earn their pay"? Life isn't fair....and never will be...so quit with the grass is always greener rant and keep your own side of the street clean.

“In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us”, Dostoyevsky.

Found this interesting too:

"III. Social-Democrats and Socialist-Revolutionaries in Russia. Theoretical and tactical differences between them. Terrorism.", Lenin. <link>

Just what are you supporting RML?

"I can still opt to not purchase what a business is selling....what do I do about bad government after I have become dependent on it?"

##### Then how do you explain the no bid contracts with Haliburton? You happy about paying them $120 a bag to so the laundry for our people in the middle east? Well thats your private industry in cahoots with your favorite political party. What can you do? You voted for the corruption and then the corruption coordinates with the private industry corruption.

As for "socialism" that is hardly the situation throughout most of the planet. Is Canada socialist? England? Socialism is simply making the government handle the most basic automomic functions of society--we have been doing it with education, fire, police, defense, food inspection, agriculture, CDC (diseases), and a whole lot more and I dont imagine you take issue with any of it--especially since it purchases lots and lots of goods and services from our private market--the same way it works btw in Canada, England and most every other "socialist" government with private industry.

Starting wars to move the economic engine is the way the cons have been doing it for decades--I wasnt suprised...Bush was crossing his fingers when he said "no nation building" like his dad was when he said no new taxes. Tell em what they want to hear and then do what you want is their long standing model. As to government growth, Bush Jr oversaw the greatest increase in government spending ever, outdoing every democrat in history.

As for how you change things in the government, two points. First off, there is VOTING and thats why the cons are out of power. If that doesnt do it, there is armed revolution which we explained and justified in our own declaration of independence. While we prefer the former, we reserve the right to the latter--why protest it when it happens in other nations--at least the Iranians are spilling their blood and not that of our troops--a true revolution isnt fought with someone elses troops.

So how big will this list of "autonomic functions" become before you finally throw up the bullshit flag and protest? So....if the fed decided that along with social healthcare, comes individual responsibilities? To ensure we are all doing what we can to keep the costs of free healthcare down....the fed will mandate a physical training program that we all have to participate in order to keep our freebies? Surely you must agree that there are certain behaviors that carry more health risks than others right? No guarantees...but we do need to do our part to mitigate risk. So, further more....the fed will mandate that you wear items to protect your skull and joints when moving about on public thoroughfares outside of a vehicle. They will mandate a list of PPE (personal protective equipment) you must be wearing....or risk having to foot the bill yourself for any injuries sustained. You can't play tackle football....or basketball in the rain. If there is lighting within five miles....you must stay indoors. You can't just not show up to work one day after calling in to take a sick day....you gotta bring a note from the doctor....before any time off is taken outside of a doctors visit. And by the way, we will check up on you....if you are supposed to be in bed sick...that is where you had better be. Not out getting a mani and pedi, or eating a big mac.

Don't think this could happen? This is socialized healthcare in the military..... and it's buried in cost overruns and expenses too. You are so willing to save a buck that you will give up everything that has been brought to you by the blood of those gone long before us..... If the framers had intended to have welfare, food stamps, and social security....we would have had it over 200 years ago vice 70. At this rate...we won't be able to vote shit out of office or take up arms against it. Take a look at the 21st ammendment for evidence of this....the fed simply holds funds from the states until the state does what the fed desires...or the state doesn't get its share that year. I reference the 21st ammendment only because it explicitly places laws regarding alcohol in the laps of the states....and one by one, as they became more and more dependent on fed funds....each state became like the other. It will be no different when we become subservient to our government due to ever increasing dependence on it.

And our European friends....lived under kings and tyrants, and have evolved towards democracy with a flair for socialism...something still a part of their long pasts of serfdom and slavery. Perhaps, if we give them long enough....they will find our way better. Hell...it worked for us rather quickly....and worked much better than social democracy ever did for Germany.

So how big will this list of "autonomic functions" become before you finally throw up the bullshit flag and protest?

##### Ive been throwing my arms up in disgust about our needless wars and bloated military budget for decades--there remains more waste in this area than any other and our budget is more than ten times greater than that of the next closest nation. Where is YOUR bullshit flag? What makes less sense financially? Individual group plans for every branch of government and for the medicare/medicaid program coupled with private insurance for everyone else and then only making the middle class pay for it OR OR OR one system we all share to keep the overall costs way down? The number two cause of bankruptcy in this nation is health care expenses....that should count for something.

" So....if the fed decided that along with social healthcare, comes individual responsibilities? To ensure we are all doing what we can to keep the costs of free healthcare down....the fed will mandate a physical training program that we all have to participate in order to keep our freebies? Surely you must agree that there are certain behaviors that carry more health risks than others right? No guarantees...but we do need to do our part to mitigate risk."

###### Actually I am glad you brought that up. Do you know how many of our health care costs are driven by untreated dug, cigarette, alcohol abuses as well as poor overall lifestyles? How often is the decision to avoid treatment based on personal costs? Sure, we could punish people (like we do today) and increase our costs or we could get them into treatment and reimburse people for health club memberships (as many insurance companies do today). No it wont be perfect and there will always be people who make poor lifestyle choices, but historically we have seen that a lot of things dont seem to affect mortality the way you think it should--marathon runners die before their fiftieth birthday sometimes while cigar smoking heavy drinkers live to their eighties--one thing is sure though--lack of treatment means more expenses later--and the big reason for lack of treatment is the exhorbinant out of pocket expenses to the patient--make someone choose between their home and medical treatment....THAT is a better way?

"So, further more....the fed will mandate that you wear items to protect your skull and joints when moving about on public thoroughfares outside of a vehicle. They will mandate a list of PPE (personal protective equipment) you must be wearing....or risk having to foot the bill yourself for any injuries sustained.

###### Actually there are already a wide range of mandatory safety requirements to drive and to operate a bike, skateboard, etc.Many states fought the seatbelt laws, many others didnt want to raise the drinking age to 21 either.....and this all went on well before Obama and we still dont have the associated free health care---your mandatory safety requirements have been working their way through the states under both dems and cons and no free health care driving it....INSURANCE companies appear to be driving it.

You can't play tackle football....or basketball in the rain. If there is lighting within five miles....you must stay indoors.

###### While I think you're sinking deep into paranoia here I would remind you that most pro and semi pro sports teams and even leauges for amateurs require you sign a waiver taking personal resoponsibility and declaring you wont be suing them. Again this isnt driven by free healthcare but rather by their insurance companies and legal pros.

You can't just not show up to work one day after calling in to take a sick day....you gotta bring a note from the doctor....before any time off is taken outside of a doctors visit. And by the way, we will check up on you....if you are supposed to be in bed sick...that is where you had better be. Not out getting a mani and pedi, or eating a big mac.

####### I dont know where you work Rubma but if you call in sick and are not sick where I work that is grounds for getting yourself fired. Employers can and do check up, some require notes, and playing hookie can indeed get you a ticket to the pavement.

Don't think this could happen? This is socialized healthcare in the military..... and it's buried in cost overruns and expenses too.

##### OK Rubma but keep in mind you NEVER lose that free care. Were you in the real world outside the military your idea of quality care would be gone as soon as a shareholder needed to make an extra nickel...lay off a couple more people and profits go up. And as I said what makes more sense, your private socialized care just for the military folks or you and us civilians sharing a single service?

You are so willing to save a buck that you will give up everything that has been brought to you by the blood of those gone long before us.....

##### You dont think the founders were trying to save a buck? You do remember the roll taxes played in the founding of this nation right? As to blood spilled, much of that was pissed away in needless wars--honor for the troops perhaps but their leaders deserve not a shred of honor for sending them to needless deaths. Dont throw the sacrifice chip around Rubma--it comes in many ways and not just in spilt blood--families, workers, and even the protestors who force the political chicken hawks to justify their actions all make sacrifices.

If the framers had intended to have welfare, food stamps, and social security....we would have had it over 200 years ago vice 70.

###### Well see Rubma things have changed a lot. I just cant go out and shoot dinner these days in most parts of the USA and thus my choice is work or starve...and since there is no guaranty of work what choices do I have? Back in the founders days I could have moved my family west and simply taken land, I could go out and shoot dinner--this is not the world we live in today though is it? While the cons can talk a good game about common defense, they like to ignore the other half of why a government exists--the "general welfare" means the shared resources we use to make our nation better for those who live here--and you wont gripe about police, fire deparments, DPW, health department, education, and a wide range of other things I pay for whether I want to or not but man do you guys get steamed about health care or taking care of the poor (a very Christian notion btw according to some guy named Jesus).

At this rate...we won't be able to vote shit out of office or take up arms against it. Take a look at the 21st ammendment for evidence of this....the fed simply holds funds from the states until the state does what the fed desires...or the state doesn't get its share that year.

###### Well that is the deal isnt it? We get equal representation in the senate and the idea is that the states have a say in the federal law making. If your state doesnt like it but the majority does, welcome to democracy. Of course a state like Maine might not see a need for gun control and might believe the laws dont make sense-while in NYC and LA and Chicago, the weekly murder rate drives a different point of view.....we have the ability to give states a lot of latitude but not always....restricting gun sales in NYC just means someone makes a road trip to Maine. So yes, the federal government can and will make decisions which make less sense in some states than others...but we agree as members to accept laws made for the majority and dont try to rule for the exceptions except when it violates the rights we agree to as citizens.

I reference the 21st ammendment only because it explicitly places laws regarding alcohol in the laps of the states....and one by one, as they became more and more dependent on fed funds....each state became like the other.

##### You could of course refuse those funds though. And keep in mind that you certainly wouldnt want states ignoring the fed when your personal pet issues arise. What would happen if the NE states could insist that the taxes we pay only be used here instead of paying for the massive welfare requirements of the con states in the rust belt and the agricultural centers? What if liberal states wouldnt agree to the draft in a con war of choice? Sure, you can fight for the right to an 18 year old drinking age but at what cost?

It will be no different when we become subservient to our government due to ever increasing dependence on it.

##### Dependence on it? I dont depend on our military to go out and attack people who never attacked us at all yet I am expected to pay for it am I not? You ask that we all work yet no assurance of a job, you demand we pay for our own health care yet dont provide us health care anyone can afford realistically. Your idea of a conservative utopia absolves the government of a role supporting its citizens for what they pay in taxes yet supports a military mission of aggression which lines up conveniently with the goals of corporate America but not its employees. If I take away the free college, the free healthcare, and the free housing will the military still be attractive to you? How about we start cost cutting by making the GI pay for his own food, shelter, and health care like we do to citizens?

And our European friends....lived under kings and tyrants, and have evolved towards democracy with a flair for socialism...something still a part of their long pasts of serfdom and slavery.

###### You think this is the case? Maybe they saw how health care and general basics of life were pathetic under the serf system and they believed the high taxes they pay should actually have a measurable return on their investment in their nation. I know many Canadians and they are aware they pay higher taxes but they also know if they lose their job they will have reasonable care--they also have robust private industry. Socialism is how you can describe any form of government at all--if we dont use our collective money, skills, and support then what benefit is there to government at all? Why not just have law of the jungle?

Perhaps, if we give them long enough....they will find our way better.

##### I doubt that. As it is they point to us an example of capitalism gone out of control and they see our military as thinly veiled imperialism. They back up these comments with pretty solid evidence too.

Hell...it worked for us rather quickly....and worked much better than social democracy ever did for Germany.

###### You might want to talk to a typical German before you say that. Sure, they regret what the Nazis became, but they also know that before Hitler they were mired in a depression worse than our own. And ask if they would sacrifice their health care to have their own military again and I doubt you will find any takers.

Military budget....one of the few things enumerated as a responsibility our government maintain. Take a look at history though, and it may help open your eyes as to why the budget is what it is. We learned early on that it wasn't that we wished to be imperialists, but that other nations become opportunists at our own expense....so now, we are deterrent. Welfare and social security are bad ideas well-steeped in good intentions.....and so is socialized health-care.

You blame private industry as the impetus behind change....that's the only impetus we have to inspire change. Necessity breeds invention.... It's a fucking shame that business is out to make a buck....how odd an ideal. Wonder how well off this nation's tax coffers would be if business wasn't out to make a profit.... You sure as shit wouldn't have a fire department or a police department....and hell, medical would have gone away long ago. Basically...in a wierd twist, capitalism contributes significantly towards the costs for socialism....

Yes, helping your fellow man is a lofty goal. And I'm not a religious man...but I do think that while the bible lays down some rules and offers suggestions on how one should live in order to reach heaven....those choices, freedoms, still lie with the individual. The Almighty has come down at any time and taken 10% of our pay as his cut, or given a job to the jobless paid for by my own earnings, or taken bread from my table and put in on someones without. The idea is that we should want to help eachother..... Forcing my hand is a form of oppression....

So, give all you want to those that need..... But quit sniffing around at my wallet....covet is one of the deadly sins...being that you really only want this shit because it is the godly thing to do.

Military budget....one of the few things enumerated as a responsibility our government maintain. Take a look at history though, and it may help open your eyes as to why the budget is what it is.

##### Good point Rubma. England, Spain, France, and before them Rome, Greece, Persia, all maintained massive military budgets and maintained empires at great expense only to eventually realize it was unsustainable when they started going bankrupt and couldnt manage the basics at home. So why should we follow suit? Why not do what we can to maintain the USA and stop trying to police the planet on MY dime against My will when I am told I am paying for common defense? At what point is a good offence bullshit because of its massive financial burden?

We learned early on that it wasn't that we wished to be imperialists, but that other nations become opportunists at our own expense....so now, we are deterrent.

##### We are? What are we deterring? Where are the WMD? Where is the Iraqi navy? How many nations are we STILL maintaining bases in which arent even remotely a threat to my security yet drain me of tax dollars to maintain?

Welfare and social security are bad ideas well-steeped in good intentions.....and so is socialized health-care.

###### All come under the concept of the "general welfare". You dont want the streets filled with the sick and the starving and the homeless--believe me its been seen in the past and as you say we need to look at history. One nasty disease caused by lack of health care could kill far more people than a terrorist attack, homelessness and starvation would drive many to crime. It isnt about "good intentions" any more than defense is....it is about common sense. Yes, we should and we do encourage people to work....few people would be happy with only having a roof and food...work is to give you more than sustinance. But how can you call the unemployed who want to work somehow lazy? We need to consider the model we have for protecting our own citizens at least with the same care we do our efforts in other nations---an operation that would put a US family into bankruptcy is free in Iraq and paid for by my tax dollars.....think about that...I consider it a form of oppression.

You blame private industry as the impetus behind change....that's the only impetus we have to inspire change. Necessity breeds invention....

###### OK Rubma are you saying only private industry can respond to neccessity? I guess the Russian space efforts and second greatest military were evidence of inability and laziness? The Russians had no problem taking the gold medal in the olympics in many events and they did a lot in the medical and science fields too. You cannot pretend the history isnt there to show success of human development outside of the USA and its political model.

It's a fucking shame that business is out to make a buck....how odd an ideal. Wonder how well off this nation's tax coffers would be if business wasn't out to make a profit.... You sure as shit wouldn't have a fire department or a police department....and hell, medical would have gone away long ago. Basically...in a wierd twist, capitalism contributes significantly towards the costs for socialism....

###### Well Rubman I happen to be a big fan of capitalism AND socialist government models BECAUSE I believe in getting an ROI on my tax dollar. If I dont have to pay for health care my wages increase and I have a safety net for health care when between jobs as I try to adapt to an ever changing job market and the global economy. US companies are competing against foreign competition who dont worry about benefits because their nations provide them.....perhaps a US national health care plan would make us more competitive economically.

Yes, helping your fellow man is a lofty goal. And I'm not a religious man...but I do think that while the bible lays down some rules and offers suggestions on how one should live in order to reach heaven....those choices, freedoms, still lie with the individual.

##### Were we on a level playing field maybe-but we arent. As I mentioned above other countries we compete with dont worry about health care and other countries also look out for the worker whereas we do not....how inefficient are we for lack of protection? If I spend all my time looking for another job because my job is constantly on the line because of cost how efficient am I? How loyal am I? And freedom? Well maybe you feel free with the weight of cost of living but I do not....the US system places its people on a treadmill and says do it until you retire or die......now thats freedom?

The Almighty has come down at any time and taken 10% of our pay as his cut,

###### Thats voluntary Rubma. You volunteer 10% or whatever you can at cburch or if not a church person give to the needy directly or through a charity...religious or not it is good in my opinion. That said, taxes are for our collective benefit and if that means keeping people working so I have a safe neighborhood or a good road to drive on then why should I complain? If it means I dont need to pay a private insurance company or go without health care between jobs why would this be a bad thing?

or given a job to the jobless paid for by my own earnings,

###### Your earnings come at the blessing of your freedom to earn which comes from the infrastructure, the laws, the protections, and the model we have in this nation. Your earnings pay for the bloated military model you support and for the protections here at home that I support and both of us would prefer to see changes made...but I imagine this is the eternal compromise which democracy brings. But no one is robbing you any more than they rob me--we both pay taxes so support things we believe in and some we dont.

or taken bread from my table and put in on someones without.

##### That someone without could be a vet Rubma...a lot of them are. He might also be someone who worked his ass off until he got cancer or had an accident. Sure, one in twenty might be a scam artist but most are legit cases. Con radio has you thinking everyone on welfare is living like a millionaire on your money.....how many people do you know personally on welfare Rubma?

The idea is that we should want to help eachother..... Forcing my hand is a form of oppression....

###### Forcing me to pay for murder in the middle east is a form of oppression too. At least Im forcing you to do what you most likely wouldnt do otherwise in helping our own citizens.

So, give all you want to those that need..... But quit sniffing around at my wallet....covet is one of the deadly sins...being that you really only want this shit because it is the godly thing to do.

###### Coveting is indeed a sin but then so is greed and so is greed (wanting more than you need), so is envy (looking at people you believe live well without working) and so is pride (believing you are better than others or superior to others). Indifference to those less fortunate than yourself is not exactly a way to move to the front of the line at the pearly gates either. But then my points are about a WORKING CITIZEN in this nation trying to raise a family....why should we pay taxes only to support military adventures? Why not pay for programs which protect us if we do the right thing and work and raise a family? Why should citizens in the rest of the industrialized world have it better than US workers? i admit freely I envy workers in those nations....especially when people like you say I live in the best country on the planet.

The bankrupting of empires wasn't soley because of the military...however, that is typically the only thing left to cut when the empire begins to crumble. And those crumblings have typically been accelerated by a massive defeat of an empires armies. So I question your assumption that the military budget is the problem behind the failings of empires...it's more likely bad government and/or our opponents have better armies.

And yes, by and large, our military is primarily a deterrent force....currently engaged in two wars it had not intended to be engaged in for as long as it has been. Our Congress can end it any time....what direction did your guy/gal vote? As for base closures....Congress is the biggest speed bump in the BRAC process. The military has never been left to make it's own decision on what it wants to keep open or closed....see, military bases bring lots of jobs to local areas. Therefore, they must be horrible investments.

Ah...the "general welfare" argument.....the words have never changed since they were written, but boy has their interpretation. Why would the framers of the Constitution take the time to specifically enumerate the powers of Congress, and then provide a "General Welfare Clause" as it is currently interpreted? It makes it pointless to list specific duties of a federal government that was created for all intents and purposes to have specific and limited powers....to only those specified. Welfare, social security, socialized healthcare....they are all state issues...not federal.

Yes...even oppressed societies and scientists simply hoping for an extra ration of vodka can be inspired to create great things. It's all relative. You see where they are at now. I find it almost laughable that you would envy the discoveries of the USSR. It didn't work out so well for them.

And stop with the drama...."how can I work if I can only think about health care" bullshit. That's a fucking cop out. This nation has never had an issue with productivity, efficiency, or creativity.....until now.

As for how rich people on welfare are....even the consideration sickens me. It pays more than minimum wage...and it's a drain on resources that could be spent on those that really need it. We aren't fixing shit with welfare....only sustaining a problem. I've seen poverty....have you? We ain't so bad off....so yes, I do have a harder time sympathizing than you. Perhaps if minimum wage paid more than welfare.....an idea?

And even our EU friends are having to tighten up the budgets too....healthcare isn't cheap. It's so convenient....the citizens now have the option to use another country's healthcare system.....to the tune of 70K leaving the UK to go somewhere else in the EU for healthcare....wow, how good can a system be for one to be inspired to shell out the cash to fly and lodge abroad in a foreign hospital?

"UK Liberal Democrat MEP Liz Lynne said the legislation paves the way for European patients to access healthcare across the EU irrespective of income.

"Why should a patient have to lose their sight waiting for a cataract operation, or spend months in agony waiting for a hip replacement when they could get treatment sooner in another member state, sometimes at a lesser cost to the country of origin? If a clinician advises treatment and this cannot be provided at home, then we need a legal framework to ensure that they can seek it elsewhere," she said."

Sounds like something I want........can completely understand why you are pushing so hard for it.

Moving on....as for helping my fellow citizens. Have done it willingly many times...Habitat for Humanity, Thanksgiving dinner at a Senior Citizens Center, tutored kids that couldn't read...just a few. I didn't need "you" telling me that the only way I can help is to give money.....it seems, I did just fine just giving my time and attention. Is that the part you hate about it?....so much easier to just sign a check and be done with charity for another year? It pisses me off when someone such as yourself tells me I don't do enough because I don't want another large bureaucratic federally operated exercise in waste to arise from the muck of honest intentions with bad results.

Try it out yourself....go paint a swingset, talk to an old person, put a roof on a house, coach little league. Who knows, just the physical aspects of those engagements could pay substantial dividends to your health...so you can work more efficiently and not have to worry about your health care.

I'm sure Jesus wouldn't have been so famous if he just handed out checks to those less fortunate.